FINAL EDIT: We've been making good progress with EVi! We've fully settled on version 9.1.0 with no AI code, we're on IRC @ #evi irc.oftc.net, we've gained a lots of popularity and we've been working on fixing tests and removing platforms that are deemed exotic with other cleanups. Thank you to everyone who has supported us this week!!!
hard-forked vim at release 9.1.0 (Jan 2024)
https://codeberg.org/NerdNextDoor/evi
maybe we can get a group of people behind this??
Fuck AI.
Made an issue on how this should proceed.
In light of the events taking place on the upstream VIm repo, I hard-forked from release 9.1's code. Here's the plan I have including some options. The plan involves eventually renaming to CVI (Community's Vi IMproved), using year and month for releases instead of year, month and day. We'll...
Made a pull request to small-hack/open-slopware to add #VIm to the list.
https://codeberg.org/small-hack/open-slopware/pulls/38/files
The first commit by me to the EVi editor, a fork of VIm before the AI slop.
https://codeberg.org/NerdNextDoor/evi/commit/99d7fe946837131607e0b1cacbb3fb9a63cb4a18
Introducing, the beginning of development on EVi 10.0. (Intended to leave behind VIm 9.1/9.2.)
I also aliased #Vi and #VIm to #EVi on my MacBook and HP laptops.
EVi will be my main terminal text editor from now on.
News! #EVi is set to appear in @the 's #NoAI list in their April update!
https://forge.starlightnet.work/Team/No-AI/commit/74c2c286497b10d561141c6335423f263e97fed0
@mrmasterkeyboard Given the impetus of your vim fork, I figured I should flag that fluxer's codebase is also very likely to contain vibe-coding, just in case you weren't already aware:
(linking to archive because the wording seems to have been heavily touched-up later, presumably due to backlash)
An issue was also raised about the project's extremely loose stance on allowing LLM-assisted contributions:
@lumi This one... honestly, I don't know what to say.
Fluxer is the only thing better than Discord by a long shot even if it was LLM written in a small way.
My opinions on this are skewed.
Like yes, involvement probably wasn't that heavy.
Yes, it might have been the only way for a single person to do something like this.
But still it's an LLM...
I'm so conflicted right now, I don't know what to do.
Using slopware is a tradeoff instead of having age verification forced on me...
@lumi i wanted to make my own chat platform once... i can't remember the specifics but it was like a twitter... fuckin discord... 4chan... idek hybrid with email, irc and skype in the mix
i don't know what the FUCK i was drinking but yeah.
IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good! here's the things it offers, today, right now, on a chat server we just set up in one evening: - you don't need a bouncer (friggin *finally*) - there are moblie clients that work well - you can see backlog when joining a channel - you can browse chat history - you can connect from multiple devices with one account and nickname - if you disconnect, your nickname is still present in a channel you joined, marked as away - you can highlight or DM people who are away and they'll see your message when they join (without crutches like MemoServ) - there is a "last read message" marker and it is synchronized between multiple connections - messages have identifiers (and server timestamps) and replies can be tagged with the message you're replying to - messages can be redacted (for moderation) - you don't need to deal with fussy nonsense like NickServ authorization, ghosting, or such; connect with your username and password and that's it - there are typing notifiers, if you want them - there are message reactions, if you want them here's the things it does not offer: - image, video, or file uploads (actively worked on: https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/562) - stickers - complex onboarding tools caveat: since IRCv3 is a true extension of IRCv2, the features listed above work if they're supported by both the server and the client. in my onboarding experience so far, people do not find it difficult to find a suitable client, but your mileage may vary. on the flipside, legacy clients will work just fine. unexpectly, i realized that IRCv3 can completely replace Matrix rooms for my own group chat purposes, and i'm probably not going to set up any Matrix homeservers again; it's just not worth it and frankly I should instead put that effort into coming up with a file upload IRCv3 extension or something
@mrmasterkeyboard This is a site I will watch with dread…
Already there are a few packages that I use or want to use, and at least one that is missing (ntfy).
I need to get on making an IDS ruleset for those, but that's far down on my priority list…
@mrmasterkeyboard Just a (stupid) question: I think vim is pretty much there. Has been for a decade or so, I wrote lots of code and research papers using it.
Are there really important features missing?
That said (written): good catch, good initiative.
Sounds a little bit as if you wanted to say you can use the old codebase forever with no maintenance. I may have misunderstood/over-interpreted you, anyway some contradiction:
It definitely makes sense to maintain an old software even when it's under feature freeze.
Libraries which you depend on do change, compilers get new warnings, sometimes even operating systems do change. Most crucial for evi would be commonly used text terminals appearing/disappearing. Occasionally there could be a severe bug. Newer folks are used to different kinds of documentation, so it may make sense to adapt this.
In mid-term it could be considered what to do with xxd etc. which are by-packages of vim but seem to work rather independently.
@hierkiosk @mrmasterkeyboard Overinterpreted maybe, and I hope I have not come across as dismissing of your effort.
Thanks for explanation!
Edit: and I was wondering about whether vim would need new features or "just" (yeah....) keeping it working.
It's all fine. The effort I put into the vim/evi stuff is pretty small compared to the effort others make (side-eying @mrmasterkeyboard) and I don't feel it is dismissed anyway.
@codeDude both work!
"that's a fucking slop vommit right there."
@mrmasterkeyboard I love this but what it REALLY needs is a "last human version"
For ex, I use ghost, and when I had downloaded my version it still didn't show any Claude/Copilot contribs. I don't know if I can roll it any further, though.
@mrmasterkeyboard I'm not a programmer, I didn't even know what Vlm was before this, but thank you so much for your efforts.
This list worries me, though. I just uninstalled espeak-ng and will learn my way around flite, but I wanna ask you something, as I only have a surface level understanding of the implications of these technologies. I mean, I understand the impacts laid out on open-slopware, but I'd really like a programmer's perspective here.
I asked both Kdenlive and PeerTube devs at different points about their stances on AI, and these are the responses I got.
KDE (Kdenlive): https://bark.lgbt/@cloudskater/116179184695668448
Framasoft (PeerTube): https://framacolibri.org/t/peertube-and-generative-ai/26622
Can I get your takes on what these responses mean? I was and still am grateful for them, as they didn't seem to dodge my questions and gave a pretty straightforward reasoning to me, but perhaps there's something I missed or don't understand. I really love Kdenlive and PeerTube is a fantastic platform that I'm hoping to start creating videos for soon, so I really hope this doesn't fall into harmful territory.
Attached: 1 image @[email protected] Can I ask what "AI powered tools" you have in #Kdenlive and why you don't take a stand against them instead? It's really hypocritical of an organization dedicated to #FLOSS to be making use of LLMs in any form, even "open source" ones that don't share their training data. I wasn't happy when #PeerTube did it, but at least they only use it for subtitle creation (still not good but at least it's not generative) and they didn't plaster the buzzword on their website as a point of pride. I'll be really disappointed if I find out the best #FLOSS video editor is supporting stuff like this.
@cloudskater I'm really bad at explanation or my views sometimes but I'll try to give what I think.
But first, I'd like to thank you for your question and your thanks for my efforts of trying to bring VIm out of AI.
This may take me a while so I'll post this bit now and try to respond as fast as possible.
@mrmasterkeyboard Of course, I'm always gonna support efforts like this. Thank YOU.
And take your time responding, there's no rush at all. <3
@cloudskater For Kdenlive, I feel they kinda avoided the AI point unless they mean it's machine learning rather than generative AI (which upon looking back they did say in the 3rd one), which I totally could get that. They didn't seem to explain the AI powered tools part. Yes, while some of these features are either machine learning or have been around for more time than the LLM craze, it doesn't full explain it all unless I'm also missing something.
I'd say a little suspicious but okay maybe.
@cloudskater For PeerTube, I think they did a better job of giving their position and uses of AI. While I agree that Whisper and transcription is murky in general, it's still better than having a chatbot or 'art' generator built in the site.
I respect their transparency too. I think they did really well laying it out. They did great, and I like how they mention who they partner with for art and other things.
While they have no confirmation and don't prohibit it, it's better than most places.
@lu_leipzig good idea, I should do that.
I've been doing some research into the last non-AI version of VIm.
I've detailed my research in this PR on Codeberg, if you're interested about how far we can get to the latest non-AI code.
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