FaustMar 6
Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists

A lot of people talking about dumping Proton right now are misunderstanding what actually happened.

Feds were able to coerce the Swiss government to coerce Proton to hand over whatever data they had on an anonymous Stop Cop City email address, that was being investigated for terrorism.

That metadata included credit card details information for the account, which is very difficult to anonymize.

Proton offers cash payments to work around this obvious security flaw.

If you must pay for a Proton account for a radical project, pay with cash (you can mail it) or washed crypto (Monero -> Bitcoin).

All credit card payments are traceable, even to a privacy-focused company.

Your security model should not rely on a business to fight the state on your behalf.

Your email or VPN provider is not going to risk prison time for your $5/mo. It's just not going to happen, at least for anything commercial. Tuta and every other email privacy-focused email company will comply with court orders.

Trying to find the perfect email provider is a fool's errand. It doesn't exist.

You can however anonymize your useage of privacy friendly services like Proton, Tuta, or Mailbox by not entering your credit card number, phone number, name, personal email, or IP to that account.

Mar 6 at 12:32amWeb
Show threadCassandrichMar 6
@COSAntiFascists OK but the CEO of Proton also praised the orange one.
Show threadBogdan BuduroiuMar 6

@dalias @COSAntiFascists did he really?

From what I dug up, seems like he praised Trump's FTC pick, which is quite far of an endorsement of Trump.

I also praise some of Trump's moves, namely tarrifs (implementation could be better). AOC also sometimes agrees with Ted Cruz on stuff.

Show threadCassandrichMar 6
@budududuroiu @COSAntiFascists You do not praise actions of a nazi. EVER.
Show threadrakooMar 7
@dalias @budududuroiu @COSAntiFascists

The company, acting in a more official capacity, doubled down saying "we are an apolitical company"
Show threadLukefromDCMar 7
@dalias @budududuroiu @COSAntiFascists Unless that Nazi just either committed suicide or left Naziism and spilled the beans on all his former buddies. The latter case is a snitch to them, a whistleblower to us.
Show thread🥑 Yours Truly! Unruly 🇨🇦🇪🇺🇺🇦🌻Mar 6

@budududuroiu

#Toodles

@dalias @COSAntiFascists

Show threadaxolotl solidarioMar 6
@budududuroiu well Gail Slater is also trash so this defense is rather empty.
Show threadBogdan BuduroiuMar 6
@axolotl it's not defense, I don't look to corporations to be the guardians of morality, just saying the person I was replying was saying nonsense
Show threadA_MinionMar 7
@budududuroiu @axolotl One of the things that's been lost is; We as workers have a responsibility to our employer, what was lost was, the employer has a responsibility to his workers as they are the ones that made them wealthy. Ford figured that out when he raised the pay so his employees could afford his cars.
Show threadBurning Joint USAMar 6
It gets exhausting to have morals in this world, but I've been meaning to switch all my stuff off of proton since that happened. I need to get a riseup account but every time I look into it there are just too many hoops to jump through and it's not meant for just any privacy conscious user.
Show threadXenotarMar 7
@dalias @COSAntiFascists And Elon Musk too, I left Proton after that
Show threadfan boy 🪭Mar 6
@COSAntiFascists
Everyone only reads the first paragraph then runs around like a chicken with no head.
Show threadBilly SmithMar 6

@COSAntiFascists

Also, use single-use-credit-cards that you can charge via cash payment, then bin them.

Show threadIHateFireworksMar 6

@BillySmith

Serious question, is this still a thing? Because all the cards in the stores here can be purchased with cash but then you have to go online and provide ID to actually use the card.

@COSAntiFascists

Show threadBilly SmithMar 6

@ProcessParsnip @COSAntiFascists

It's still a thing in the UK.

I don't know about elsewhere.

Show threadLed By Gilded FoolsMar 6

@COSAntiFascists If you're going to use a VPN to establish a Proton/Tuta account, or grab your email, be sure you know what data they can leak as well.

Here is a comparison spreadsheet someone kindly put together several years ago, has not been updated with new VPN providers since (2020?)

https://web.archive.org/web/20170107044454/https://thatoneprivacysite.net/vpn-comparison-chart/

That One Privacy Site | Detailed VPN Comparison Chart

Show threadpinguinoMar 6
@COSAntiFascists Once again: Tools are no substitutes for knowledge.
Show threadThat first spark 🏳️‍⚧️🥷🏴🔥Mar 6
@COSAntiFascists its a shame more people are not hip to this. You need to treat security like an onion, and deal with all aspects of OPSEC all the way down the stack.
Show threadchinstonwurchillMar 6
@COSAntiFascists I signed up with cash. Later I was made to provide my payment information.
Show threadJay Grant 🏳️‍⚧️Mar 6
@COSAntiFascists this is a shit take, comrade
Show threadDavid W. JonesMar 6
@COSAntiFascists
Corporations are legal entities.
Governments control the law.
If you can't trust your government, you can't trust corporations.
Show threadaxolotl solidarioMar 6

@COSAntiFascists "Your email or VPN provider is not going to risk prison time for your $5/mo."

- Taking a risk for $5/mo, no. But given the masses talking about dumping Proton rn, this decision is going to cost them much, much more than $5/mo.

- Im no lawyer, but im pretty sure this isnt a case of going straight to prison. Unless Switzerland is a totalitarian state and i didnt notice, there are legal measures they could have taken instead of immediately folding.

- Selling themselves as the 'privacy' option then selling out an activist without so much as a whimper is a bad look, and they deserve to lose trust and users.

- This wouldn't happen with riseup (like, they dont charge, so its literately impossible)

Show thread[object Object]Mar 6

@axolotl @COSAntiFascists in addition: “That metadata included credit card details information for the account, which is very difficult to anonymize.” it is fucking rich to claim this when signal does it for their only paid feature: https://signal.org/blog/introducing-secure-backups/

“Using the same zero-knowledge technology that enables Signal groups to work without revealing intimate metadata, backup archives are stored without a direct link to a specific backup payment or Signal user account.”

and it’s open source

Introducing Signal Secure Backups

In the past, if you broke or lost your phone, your Signal message history was gone. This has been a challenge for people whose most important conversations happen on Signal. Think family photos, sweet messages, important documents, or anything else you don’t want to lose forever. This explains wh...

Signal Messenger
Show thread[object Object]Mar 6

@axolotl @COSAntiFascists and that’s not to say it’s trivial but uhhh maybe people shouldn’t trust supposed cryptographers who avoid doing difficult but solvable shit

also maybe a leftist group should avoid going to bat for a corporation that the ancoms have known is fucking rotten for years

Show threadRedMar 6
@axolotl I had to look up riseup - this looks amazing at first glance! Have I just been completely living under a rock, or is my surprise that more people aren't talking about this org justified?
Show threadaxolotl solidarioMar 6
@r3dr3clus3 yeah, i dont know. they have been around for quite awhile and provide a bunch of rad services for free. Some years ago they locked down new email accounts and you can only get one with a code from an og user. I assume this is the main reason they arent well known anymore.
But most of their services are open. Their vpn is free and easy, and i use their pads to collaborate on (non-sensitive) texts pretty much daily.
Show threadAndy GajdosikMar 6
@COSAntiFascists and their CEO is a nazi or not?
Show threadJames CridlandMar 6

@COSAntiFascists You can buy Mullvad vouchers through Amazon, which essentially anonymises your purchase.

Amazon knows you bought a Mullvad voucher, but don’t know your voucher code. Mullvad knows the voucher code but doesn’t know who bought it. Elegant solution.

(Shop-bought gift cards are activated at the till with your credit card details, and so are not anonymous).

Show threadFamisukiMar 6
@COSAntiFascists Honestly, Proton should accelerate their wish to move their jurisdiction out of Swiss. But that anonymization tbh should do.
Show threadEm Mar 7
@COSAntiFascists @b9AcE 
Show threadSIGSEGV44Mar 7
@COSAntiFascists @evren
Show threadevrenMar 8
@sigsegv44 peki protonun daha öncesinde yaptıkları?
Show threadXenotarMar 7
@COSAntiFascists In short: the victim is to blame for not being an expert in security. The same kind of disgusting argument used against women who are victims of sexual violence: "who told you to dress provocatively?"
How disgusting. An account to block.
Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Mar 7
@COSAntiFascists Proton isn't $5/mo. I paid almost $200/yr for the luxury have having private e-mail. I don't really care if they know who I am. I just don't want them in my business that is nunya theirs. I'm a actually a very private person. Being totally anonymous is a fool's errand. I suppose you could use a pre-paid Visa card from Walmart though...
Show threadLukefromDCMar 7
@praetor @COSAntiFascists Don't stand directly in front of the register at the self-pay while paying that cash, or Wal-Mart will have a good photo of your face tied to that transaction. Stand to the side of the register about shoulder width "downstream" of the scanners.
Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Mar 7
@LukefromDC @COSAntiFascists Walmart Money Center. They serve the underbanked. I once knew a guy who had been to federal prison who said you can find everything you need to commit a crime at Walmart. Probably not the best criminal if he got caught...but...I can see the premise. Burner phones, cash cards, etc.
Show threadLukefromDCMar 7

@praetor @COSAntiFascists and guns too for that matter.

A bank robber could buy a gun,ammo, a ski mask, a bike, and a prepaid phone all at once at Wal-Mart. That combination of items all bought at once at the same Wal-Mart then seen on the bank's own security cameras would probably get them identified almost instantly though.

The gun sale would involve ID, and that would be enough to prove the identity by photo comparison on all the other purchases even though guns are handled separately at teh sporting goods counter.

A killer who used an iron pry bar was once identified by a UPC sticker left on that tool. It was a brand sold at Home Depot, and cops took that sticker to all nearby Home Depots. Home Depot shoots a photo of whatever is in front of the register (don't let it be your face) with every item scanned. All photos taken when this item was scanned were examined and from them the killer was caught.

Remember this could just as easily have been for "killing" a bulldozer at a pipeline site as for a murder!

Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Mar 7
@LukefromDC @COSAntiFascists Wow! By a UPC alone?! That's kinda scary actually.
Show threadLukefromDCMar 7
@praetor @COSAntiFascists Never underestimate your enemies
Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Mar 7
@LukefromDC @COSAntiFascists It's a mixed bag for me. I'm not a criminal. I'm too damned boring. But, i am notoriously private. And I don't necessarily consider the state the enemy. I consider the state a flawed invention of a flawed species. I exist, you exist, people in federal prison exist. It's hard to not exist. But what you do while your existing is nobody's fucking business.
Show threadAlatheaMar 7
@praetor @LukefromDC @COSAntiFascists "I'm not a criminal" babe you aren't the one who's deciding that.
Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Mar 7
@Poljack @LukefromDC @COSAntiFascists That's probably true. I'm on a list. I just know it. I'm too grumpy to not be.
Show threadLukefromDCMar 7

@COSAntiFascists A similar case to this exists with media and videographers: a corporate media outlet on receiveing a grand jury subpoena might challenge it in court but won't fall on their sword if it fails.

An activists videographer on the other hand will either defy the grand jury or cease to be an activist. Example here is my own response to that 2018 grand jury subpeona after the failed nazi "Unite the Right II" attempt to stage a second Charlottesville in DC.

I was prepared to give up my own life to protect the folks being investigated, but the grand jury itself wasn't up for this kind of heavy and folded. Had this been the Washington Post or CNN they would have gotten what they wanted for sure.

Note that in the Crimethinc hypothetical about an all-out crackdown and collapse
https://crimethinc.com/2025/03/21/survival-a-story-about-anarchists-enduring-mass-raids
there is exactly ONE email provider that falls on their sword to protect their users: Riseup. Riseup is activist run so same obligations I have. Here's the relevent text from the Crimethinc hypothetical:

"Riseup allegedly melted their servers with thermite during a raid and were all arrested. Protonmail has apparently been collaborating, injecting spyware onto user’s devices, and some people are surprised by this? "

AGAIN-that's a hypothetical of the relative responses of activist-owned Riseup vs corporate owned Proton in an all-out crackdown.

Proton has no more vested interest in defending us than Riseup does in defending ransomware operators, whon they did in fact allegedly provide information on in one case.

Nobody goes to the mat and slugs it out for those whom they have no alleigence to: not Proton for us, and not Riseup for organized crime ransomware operators.

Survival

A work of speculative fiction about anarchists enduring mass raids and the technological innovations via which they survive.

CrimethInc.