When I was figuring my self out, one of the things that cracked off a big chunk of shell was a reasonably famous dude on Twitter (well you know Twitter famous) saying he'd thought about his gender and come to the conclusion he was really a dude.

Up until that point I'd been hiding behind the assumption that anyone who actually thought about this would end up figuring they aren't their gender assigned at birth, and most people have just never thought about it but were probably some flavour of non binary at least.

RE:
masto.hackers.town/users/siege/statuses/116177643222854981
So... Hay... Cis folk, I... Errr... Think there are some of you following me... Maybe...

Want to do a trans person a solid and chime in with your answers below.?

Have you thought about your gender? What it would be like to not be your current gender?

Did it feel good? Better? "Oh fuck no"?
@mindpersephone I did. I guess it would have its pros and cons ;)
@mindpersephone maybe I should elaborate a bit more. Since about 10 years, I'm in the kink scene and getting more engaged in queer rights. In that time, I got to know a lot of trans people (and ended up dating a few of them). And I also started crossdressing sometimes. I did spend a fair amount thinking of my gender (and sexual orientation), and I came to the conclusion, that I like my body as it is.
@mindpersephone What I don't like about it: I feel I'd be more approachible if I looked more feminine. (But looking like a hippie helps a bit already.)
And sometimes I wish my body was a bit more androgynous. I'm a bit lazy with body care, I only shave every few weeks, and I grow more beard than I like in that period.
And of course I have fantasized what it feels like to have sex in a female body ;)

@mindpersephone I thought about it a bit and I suppose I'm not fully cis but really mostly.

My overall sentiment is that I like being a man. I'd like to be able to switch into a woman's body every now and then, but only with the certainty of being able to switch back. Male is my baseline and what I'm comfortable with.

@mindpersephone I do think about it.

Until a month ago I would have flatly said "cis male."

Since I started a few years ago discovering I like the feel of wearing skirts, and from there looking pretty more generally (e.g., lipstick, nail polish, blouses), I've thought about it and studied the question in myself, oh, a few times a year. Still landing on cis male with fluid gender presentation.

I've more recently started to check in again in a different light. Not that cis male was wrong, or contradictory, or dysphoric, but more that I didn't feel particularly attached or invested in being male.

Now I'm testing different ideas for how right they feel. Agender didn't seem the right fit, so I'm currently sitting a bit with "demimale" to see how that rests with me.

Short answer: Better.

@mindpersephone
Hi, cis dude here.

I thought (wishfully) about being a girl when puberty hit me, but it was mostly/only about sex, masturbation and general horniness. (Not that being trans would have been possible where I grew up but that's beside the point.)

Only after I met some really cute trans people and becoming friends with them I questioned my gender again. I thought a bit about becoming an enby because I really don't care about reproduction and T has some nasty side effects.

@mindpersephone But in the end I just didn't feel wrong being male and looking like the hairy dude I am.

That doesn't mean I don't see all the toxic masculinity that plagues my kind to the point it backfires so hard on us.
I had my fair share of mobbing and BS just because I like my hair long. I got called "girl", " gay" and so on as insults for years and that broke things in me.

I wish people would be okay with how others express themselves regardless of clothing, hairstyle, gender ....

@mindpersephone Am cis, considered my gender, came out still cis (but like, Wolf Male not Human Male), so yeah I'm like that Twitter dude!

DEFINITELY the idea of being a woman is "oh fuck no" for me. Being agender or something would be less INSTANT NOPE, but still, I like my gender and I'm keepin' it. :3

I still consider myself nonbinary since I'm not /human man/ male, though. I'm both male and nonbinary and that confuses the heck out of people. :3

@IceWolf @mindpersephone hey frost?
what do you mean with "like that twitter dude"?? /gen

@det @mindpersephone The twitter dude mentioned in the OP!

(if you can't see it, https://spookygirl.boo/notes/ajhk6wkzw2b8gqr0 โ€“ sometimes (a lot of the time) things don't load right)

Persephone (@mindpersephone)

When I was figuring my self out, one of the things that cracked off a big chunk of shell was a reasonably famous dude on Twitter (well you know Twitter famous) saying he'd thought about his gender and come to the conclusion he was really a dude. Up until that point I'd been hiding behind the assumption that anyone who actually thought about this would end up figuring they aren't their gender assigned at birth, and most people have just never thought about it but were probably some flavour of non binary at least.

Spookygirl Social Club

@det @mindpersephone (pop that link into your client search bar, it should show up. If you see that but not my post attached to it, also pop in https://spookygirl.boo/notes/ajhkdqaalr8qkdw7 which is in the middle and is the one I directly replied to.)

(you can also see everything over on Persephone's instance by just clicking it, of course, but then you gotta deal with her instance's UI instead of yours. Upside is you'll see other other people's replies that haven't made it to your instance, too.)

Persephone (@mindpersephone)

So... Hay... Cis folk, I... Errr... Think there are some of you following me... Maybe... Want to do a trans person a solid and chime in with your answers below.? Have you thought about your gender? What it would be like to not be your current gender? Did it feel good? Better? "Oh fuck no"?

Spookygirl Social Club
@IceWolf @mindpersephone i didnt realize this was a reply to something else lol
yeah okay i see lol
@det @mindpersephone Hehe yeah! Good good :3
@IceWolf @mindpersephone also since i find myself in a somewhat similar situation
i had never considered labelling myself as nonbinary, since that falls under
gender stuff really, no?
its an interesting thought, and being nb and fem at once does sound like a funny idea to throw a lot of folks through a loop

@det @mindpersephone Haha yeah! :3 It is gender stuff, my gender is kinda related to my species (which makes sense, since my species affects _everything_)

like, I'm male, but I'm male in the way you'd look at a male wolf and go "oh he's male". I'm not male in the way you'd look at a human man and go "oh he's a man", with all the associated Gender Role Baggage.

@IceWolf @mindpersephone actually, yeah this is true
i mean i thought of it as
my species informs my gender
so im a woman when you shift focus from human gender concepts to crow ones
though i suppose in something where the default is human centric, using something like nonbinary, isnt entirely wrong either yeah

@det @mindpersephone Yeah exactly!

I don't think I'd be nonbinary among wolves, just among humans.

@IceWolf @mindpersephone yeahhh thats exactly it
a fun little conversation wrapped with some slight self realization
or, maybe less so self and moreso how others perceive me, but
im still learning regardless
:7
@mindpersephone @PepperTheVixen Honestly I have. Andit just felt neutral. Like, the only reason I go by she/her is because that's what I was given, but if someone waved a magic wand and I all of a sudden went by they/them I'd just be neutral. He/him I would be a little less neutral but still relatively neutral, but I don't know why. In terms of personality traits I find it really hard to gender those and don't feel like I fit gender roles neatly either. So basically it's kinda like I don't feel dysphoric but I don't have particular feelings about the label I was given either. If it were stripped away I'd be apathetic.

@mindpersephone I definitely don't consider myself to be anything other than cis male, but I also dislike the gender stereotype whereby men are meant to be macho idiots, and I mostly dislike male company. (A mixed group is OK, a mainly female group is OK, an all-male group typically feels tiresome and pointless and I'm eager to get away.)

I'm happy to be male, but I wish there were fewer stereotypes about what a male should be. I value my sensitivity, for example.

@smind @mindpersephone thanks for voicing your opinion on groups of (cis-)men. I feel that way as well. Most of my friends are female or trans.
@ralph_himself @mindpersephone Thanks for that. I think it's a feeling that I can't have a proper conversation in that kind of groupโ€”enough of the men start competing, or acting a role instead of being themselves, for it to feel impossible. I think it happens even if nobody really wants it, because they each think the others do.

@mindpersephone Hi, I did not thought of my gender. I'm a CIS-Male and was always into women. There was never any point in my time a thought about this differently and never the idea of being a woman. Of course I had the question what would it like to be if, but no real interesst.
But I'm very interessted about people who live there life differently and am a supporter (equal rights etc.)

For me most important: I speak up, when I have the impression someone is not acting right towards LGBTIQ.

@mindpersephone And one addition: I try to make as less mistakes as possible, but of course doing them from time to time. Nevertheless, I'm eger to lern.

(I had to google the right abbreviation for my above text๐Ÿซฃ )

@mindpersephone Good question.

When I was very young, I wanted to be a fireman, and I did not see any problem with this scenario at all.

Sometimes, I imagine what it might be like and I do believe that the trans version of me would be a far more relaxed person, far sexier too. I think there is probably a lot to unpack behind this, because at the same time, I can't imagine not being the that me I am.

Recently for an office move, I wore my man's trousers and a shirt of his; I did feel sexier.

@mindpersephone Also more confident.

I'm attracted people regardless of gender. Somehow though, trans men are singularly attractive to me and I wonder what that means on some deeper level, now you mention it.

So that's a very thought provoking set of questions.

Good, better, but not oh fuck no.

@mindpersephone But I can't imagine not being the me I am... so :-)

@mindpersephone I can be down for an "Oh fuck, no".

I've consumed a lot of gender-flexible media (thank you in particular, El Goonish Shive), so I've contemplated my own gender and I am very happy in my own skin. Well, happy with the basic structure, would be happier if I could see some progress on fitness, but that's not to do with gender.

I try not to get too tied up in identifying with my biology, but it's so powerfully and comfortably a part of me that it's hard to avoid.

@mindpersephone Iโ€™ve thought about my gender and the alternatives and yeah, Iโ€™m fine as I am.

@mindpersephone I feel lucky and relieved that my gender and my biology align.

Also lucky that my sexuality in the broader sense is not particularly complicated.

@mindpersephone Thought about it, especially after hanging out here on the fediverse, but I'm apparently cis het. No negative feelings if otherwise but I'd probably be a lesbian then.

@mindpersephone Cis male here. Iโ€™m the most boring sort of person imaginable: middle class middle aged dad.

I have in fact thought about my gender, at different times in my life, and more so since I started spending more time on the Fedi.

But Iโ€™ve always landed at โ€œIโ€™m cis and male, and thatโ€™s just who I amโ€.

Even though I was raised by a feminist single mom, I grew up with a lot of toxic masculinity. Putting that in the trash feels great. So my thing is more โ€œi want men to be better.โ€

@mindpersephone

I've come to understand and even be envious about the way kids-this-days have grown out of the binary spectrum, regarding their gender identity. Mainly because I see how the gender roles are mostly used as a control strategy by power groups.

As for myself, I don't see how I could identify as a woman and still be me. I'm a quite boring cis-male. So it's not so much a "fuck-no", but there is a barrier to my imagination. As if you'd be asking me how would be to be a planet.

@mindpersephone I'm cis and always have been. I absolutely thought about what it'd be like to change gender, but never felt a need or compulsion to. I actually like being a guy. I have nothing against the idea, it's just kinda "eh, I'm good." I'll do some gender-bendy things like cross dress and wear leggings, but that's about the extent of it.

I am a furry though, if that counts ๐Ÿ˜น

@mindpersephone I am cis female and have thought about my gender. I think it would be loads of fun to not be my current gender. Peeing my name in the snow?? Fuck yes!! Give me that weapon!

I think switching between genders, like with the flip of a switch, would be awesome. That being said, I am comfortable with my current gender. I don't suffer any negative emotional consequences because of it.

One important factor to consider is my sexuality - I'm bisexual. This might explain my comfort with both genders to a certain degree at the very least.

@mindpersephone

I have tought about this for years. Currently consider myself cis because
Its an easy spot. I was socialized as such and I dont really have that much against it.
The closest label I may use in Queer spaces is Loripsic.
However, I do know I am not a trans man because the idea of beards and lots of hair from HRT is not appealing at all.

I do think I may be a flavour of nonbinary, or a weird Cis-Enby thing, hiding in a very specific micro-label. But since I do not pursue HRT or social transition besides the statement to prefer she/her and ix/ixs as pronouns, I dont feel valid enough for it.

But I do feel weird both in gender and sexual orientation. For example, I label myself as a bi woman, but I often feel disconnected from the label "sapphic", and sometimes i experience my attraction to women as "like a man loving a woman" despite that i am not a man in any level and neither gender non conforming *enough*. (It might be some internalized homophobia where I am unable to take away heteronormativity despite my efforts to deconstruction to heal).

For me, at least, has been a very hard, confusing journey that intersects with childhood trauma and religious trauma.

Thinking alot about this shuts me down and makes me wish to be formless energy orb.

@mindpersephone Cis gay guy. When I was a lot younger the thought was 'ick', mostly in that older "ew" way, but after dismissing that, and trying to think about it genuinely, it just doesn't click. It's not "Oh fuck no", it's more like it feels like "wrong puzzle piece for the spot", even not in a sexual sense. It's as simple as "isn't me".

@mindpersephone I have.

I've felt sufficiently detached from gender (and especially from cultural expectations of performance thereof) that the idea of being some form of cisn't has crossed my mind.

And I think the answer is "I'm autistic and cis, and very much in that order, and may perform gender nonconformity as a direct result of this."

Specifically, I got married in a corset and circle skirt made for me by a friend solely for my sensory desires of Squish, Swish, and Shiny. The circle skirt material was a metallic blue fabric I couldn't stop stim-staring at in the shop where I met said friend to be measured, so we chose it; meanwhile, the navy taffeta corset was made not for body-shaping but for even deep pressure, and it helped ground me on the big day.

I have wondered what it would be like to not be a man, and it's not felt right. But I'm not attached to this one either; I just haven't really felt dysphoric either, and the alternatives (plural!) just feel at least as ill-fitting if not more. So I've called myself "inertia cis" ๐Ÿ˜‚

@shinybat @mindpersephone I appreciate "autistic and cis in that order."
@mindpersephone welp, I had a little rant on it a couple days ago https://kinkycats.org/@adamedam/116083865757061746
Adam Edam (@[email protected])

Content warning: gender thoughts

kinkycats.org
@mindpersephone yeah, Iโ€™ve thought about it since Iโ€™ve been lgbtq adjacent most of my adult life. Took me a while to settle into who I am (cis het male) but once I have the toxic parts hold no appeal to me anymore (not that there was a lot of that before). That alone was worth the effort.

@mindpersephone

I have thought about my gender and my orientation and concluded I like being a guy who likes women.

And I'm okay with guys flirting with me, but really have no interest in doing anything with them.

I feel more comfortable around the openly queer than the openly religious

@mindpersephone a couple decades ago I started writing a story about a gender-flexible shapeshifter in a relationship with a gender-inflexible one, and I researched trans-ness a bit.

I've been a cis male my entire life. I've never been unsure about it. when I ask myself, what if I were a girl, it kinda "does not compute". gimme a skirt and a vagina, sure, that sounds interesting to try, but I'd be a male with a skirt and a vagina. I have no idea what this "male" essence is, but it's me

@mindpersephone

Yes, but I'm happy as I am just being bi.

Then again, as a writer, all my MCs are not male. So maybe I have the best of both worlds.

@AdaraAstin @mindpersephone I'm a dude, that I know, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I didn't also ask myself what it would be like to be a woman once or twice in my life. I wonder how my life would have been if I were one instead of a man, would it really be that much different? I'm still the same person, I'd just be a woman though instead. Not sure, but I have wondered about it though.
@AdaraAstin @mindpersephone I've more often asked myself what it would be like if there was a person who was just like me, but just happened to be a woman? Now that would be pretty interesting for sure, not sure how I'd feel knowing that there was a person just like me but who also is a woman. Interesting to think about actually.
@mindpersephone cis, AMAB. I did think about this a lot once upon a time and somehow knew every time that i was a dude and have not revisited since. it's a knowledge not a conclusion for me, in that it's not, x, y z therefore but, nothing else feels right.

@mindpersephone @AimeeMaroux

I was AFAB and Iโ€™ve always felt like that works for me. Not that Iโ€™ve always liked my body. But even when I acknowledge that my life has been circumscribed by sexism, I still wouldnt want to change my gender. Knowing this about myself helps me understand how fundamental trans rights are.

@mindpersephone as on paper I am Cis:

Yes, thought about it, gender I couldn't care less, sex I would miss some practical advantages, but it wouldn't be a huge problem.

Rarely think about it though, because my personal view on myself is "don't touch a running system", so I just go with what I have (thus Cis on paper, technically there probably would be more fitting labels, but I don't like labels)

@mindpersephone I'm a cis woman. The first time I thought about my gender was probably when my parents told me the name they'd have given me if I had been a boy. But I was a girl and I felt like a girl. Later, in my teens, I was not very traditionally feminine because I believed that I could either be perceived as beautiful or smart and I wanted others to think I'm smart rather than pretty. Several people asked me if I would rather be a boy. And I thought about it and I quite strongly felt "no".

@mindpersephone I distinctly remember feeling my gender very strongly when asked if I had rather been a boy which is why I wonder if other cis people don't feel this the same way because it is very easy to imagine what this would feel like if my body didn't match this feeling and it has nothing to do with my genitals, something that is so readily brought up.

So yes, I have thought about my gender repeatedly and so far my conclusion has been that I'm a (cis) woman every time ๐Ÿ™‚

@mindpersephone I've given it some pondering. So many of my friends, family and loved ones are trans that I feel like an odd one out!

There's no one aspect of what being a man means, that encompasses all men and excludes all non-men. But still somehow thinking of myself as a man is important to me.

Also there was the time @goatsarah offered me an HRT pill and I had a deeply visceral nope-out reaction, despite knowing intellectually that one pill wouldn't harm or change me.

@mindpersephone i personally dont feel a gender almost all of the time unless somebody talks about gender in which case i temporarily become aware, but i just feel like a human, a create that does stuff, sleeps, eats, thinks, imagines, listens, talks, cooks, eats, and philosophizes and so on... it almost never matters in any significant way and isnt even really part of me being in the world interacting with others.

I do think we could all be like this most of the time - just humans ๐Ÿ™‚

@mindpersephone been thinking about my gender for awhile, mostly in terms of what I *not* feel like: the standard type of cis-men that I have around me every day.
But if you'd ask me what that mismatch means to me, I don't really know. I don't feel "standard-male" I guess, but not female either. I'm OK with being called male, as it seems to match my physical appearance. But inside I'm not 100% sure. Maybe gender is just a rather small part of my identity. ๐Ÿคท

@mindpersephone for me when I've thought in the past I was simply like, "nah, that's not me."

I do sometimes have thoughts though such as, "I'd make a good looking nonbinary person" when I see myself in the mirror when my hair is puffy and my face is shaven, but thinking myself as anything besides a guy doesn't feel like me