Marsh 
Brick DuckI don't care for #Gnome (a desktop environment for #linux) and I want the world to know why.
https://woltman.com/gnome-bad/
Fabian【ファビアン】🏳️🌈@woltiv Appears like you care a lot for gnome 
@fabiscafe Perhaps "about" instead of "for" 😆
Andreas K@woltiv @fabiscafe
I would say you care about Linux and software freedom, and hate how especially the US press seems to presume that Gnome is THE Linux desktop.
When it is broken in so many ways.
In many ways, the Gnome project is very amateurish.
felix waller@woltiv most gnome hate you see is merely an emotional reaction to the unfamiliar, so reading this rational dissection was refreshing.
You highlighted quite a few usability issues I've never seen before, though some of them seem to be bugs with your system (which is arguably worse). I found the add user page's different sized inputs particularly hilarious.
As always there's the inevitable "no customisation" section, which is getting a bit old since, as you point out, if you want to customise gnome, you actually want cinnamon.
On the whole though this is a great explanation of many of the frustrations people have with the software
@woltiv one question that I always have with people who dislike the gnome workflow, specifically the overview and lack of pinned taskbar / dock, is why?
I don't find having a dock at the bottom any better than launching from the overview which, for my most used apps, takes 2-3 keypresses (eg. super+f+enter for firefox, or super+1 for the first app on my dock), and takes only a few more to spell out more of the app name if needed. That way you don't even have to remember what the app icon is or what it's called, since you can just type in a generic name instead.
My impression is that it's an external consistency thing: people are used to taskbars so taskbars are good. But since I have to help each of the members of my family navigate their windows, mac and chromebook systems anyway, it doesn't seem like it's all it's cracked up to be.
@f11xter I'm always open to updating it if I got something wrong, is there a particular bug you noticed?
And thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it 😀
@woltiv ah I wish I'd written them down as I found them now but from the top of my head the file manager type to search / filter thingy should work, assuming we both have the same version of nautilus.
Also one bug was in my reading: you talk about super+drag to resize, and I thought you were referring to move, which gnome does since dragging from the title bar is so difficult!
That said, I wouldn't update the article anyway, since what gnome should do is kinda irrelevant in comparison to what it actually does.
@f11xter @woltiv
The problem is, that without customisation, standard Gnome is basically unusable for quite a bit of setups beyond a standard laptop with perhaps one external display.
The support e.g. for multi display has been rudimentary at best.
I totally see how in their design goal to support different form factors and trying to be a like a phone, supporting PCs with 4 displays is not a priority. 🤷
FineFindus@woltiv There were some valid criticisms, but this just feels like it was written by someone who had already decided that GNOME was bad before even trying it (or using it long enough).
Angelo Verlain@FineFindus @woltiv I agree there’s valid criticism here. For example, I didn’t realise how the Tour app is so broken and basically useless for people who have never used Linux/GNOME before.
I think some of OP’s ideas could be used to improve GNOME imho
Cleo Menezes Jr. 🌵@FineFindus, honestly it seems like I just read a comment on r/linux where the point from the first word is about how he always didn't like GNOME but this time he didn't like it while he was using it. 😁
But of course, all criticism is welcome.
Jeff Fortin T. (風の庭園のNekohayo)@woltiv For starters, you can already remove your rant about the File Picker, as it is being replaced by the new portalled Nautilus file chooser releasing on Sep 18 with GNOME 47. That is the result of more than 5 months of top-tier, *full-time* code rearchitecturing, and only possible "in one cycle" by an experienced maintainer as a result of years of unpaid refactoring prior to that.
There are other things that are already being addressed with the new GNOME release coming out next month, too.
@nekohayo I wrote about the Gnome that is currently shipping. It's my understanding that the file picker has been that way (trash) for years.
@woltiv Sure, but when you are writing a detailed critique like that, there is something about timing it and doing your research also taking into account what is on the edge of being solved, particularly when people have been actively working on solving some of the issues, with great personal dedication and sacrifice.
You are not a journalist bound to a code of ethics, but when someone takes time to point out outdated information, it is courteous and the "right thing to do" to correct it.
@nekohayo I have added a note to both the preamble and to the file picker section, but possible fixes in future versions in no way changes criticism of version <=46.
Since I'm a not a journalist and aren't bound to a code of ethics, if you tip me $50 on Ko-Fi I'll write a review when the new file picker is released. The Ko-Fi link is at the bottom of the article. It would be crass to directly link it here.
@woltiv Also puzzled that, although you said you reviewed GNOME 46, you have different screens & strings in the gnome-tour app than what I actually see in Fedora's gnome-tour 46.0 app (video below).
Not to say that the gestures features presentation isn't weird on a desktop computer with no touchpad/touchscreen, though. The ticket for that is: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tour/-/issues/27
As for your complaint about the lack of a maximize button, there's a ticket about explaining how it works: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tour/-/issues/49
Not to say that the gestures features presentation isn't weird on a desktop computer with no touchpad/touchscreen, though. The ticket for that is: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tour/-/issues/27
As for your complaint about the lack of a maximize button, there's a ticket about explaining how it works: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tour/-/issues/49
@nekohayo I’ll post a virtualbox VM when I’m able (not at home for the next couple days) that shows the behavior/screens that I saw.
aspraggDoes the new file picker fix the awful placement of the "Open" button being at the *top* of the gorram window?
Which is not only unlike every single other file picker ever, but completely breaks the flow of working from the top to the bottom of the window, in the same way that just reading, or filling in any other kind of form (incl. IRL) works?
This is particularly jarring for me, 'cos even though I don't use Gnome, it affects ordinary non-Gnome GTK apps, and it *suuuucks*
@aspragg @woltiv Yes, it does… If you are running GNOME, that is; because the new file chooser we're talking about is Nautilus in filechooser mode through a portal when running GNOME.
If you're running KDE, it opens KDE's native file picker.
If you're running some other environment, well, it's up to that desktop environment to make and provide their own file chooser if they aren't happy with GTK's fallback filechooser.
Apps need to use the standard portal mechanism for any of this to work.
If you're running KDE, it opens KDE's native file picker.
If you're running some other environment, well, it's up to that desktop environment to make and provide their own file chooser if they aren't happy with GTK's fallback filechooser.
Apps need to use the standard portal mechanism for any of this to work.
Maxi 12x 💉
Xerz 💗@frumble read over quickly... it's just the same old criticism of GNOME 3+ I've heard over and over again, not much I can say that hasn't been said so many times in the past decade 
Elias Mårtenson
Keywan Tonekaboni@frumble Ich glaube, ich halte von seiner Argumentation so viel, wie er von Gnome 😉
@keywan Also ich finde, wenn er Apple User Interface Guidelines zitiert, inkonsistente CSD-Icons thematisiert, den feature-befreiten Dateimanager vergleicht oder rechtsklickfähige White Spaces im Dateimanager untersucht, hat das schon Hand und Fuß. Viel Schönes drin. Das Plasma-Hurra hätte ich dezenter eingewoben, in dieser Form führt das leider genau zu solcher Reaktanz seiner UX-Analyse unter gerade den Menschen, die sie ernst nehmen sollten.
@frumble es ist sehr verbose, dass ich nicht zum Kern der Kritik vorgedrungen bin. 😉 Außerdem habe ich Urlaub 😁schöne Grüße aus dem Nachtzug.
@woltiv I read your article, and thanks for reminding me why I stopped using GNOME at version 3. It seems to have gotten actively worse since then. When I switched away from it, it was actually quite sad, because I was a huge GNOME fan before that.
I think what has happened now is that everyone who cares about a normal, usable UI works on KDE now, so there is nothing stopping whatever is going on in the GNOME community from backing off from their worst ideas.
The missing system tray is the worst offender by the way. (in AVGN voice) what were they thinking!?
Oh, and the inability to set a background colour. That one was so baffling the first time I saw it, and I still cannot understand why they removed it. It's so... inexplicably bizarre.
@woltiv 100x agreed.
Although the ultimative thing that broke it for me is the totally broken multiscreen support combined with the "we cannot be bothered to provide a stable API for extensions" attitude of the developers, which made upgrading Fedora (which is a regular necessity) a painful experience, as the necessary multimon extension to make my environment working took sometimes some time to get fixed for the new Gnome version.
No, thank you.
Jim@woltiv I don't hate it. I actually really got used to what I suppose you'd call the clean design, but you make plenty of great points.
Abhinav Tushar@woltiv Great points! I was using Gnome on my touchscreen laptop assuming it might be better at the touchscreen because of extra spaces and what not. But this is a wake up call reminding me how frustrated I get on a daily basis using Gnome. Switching to Plasma soon!
user8e8f87e@user8e8f87c Es ist ein Leckerbissen! 😊
gurgelgubbe@woltiv Imagine people trying to develop a less typical desktop environment and giving it out for free. Bastards, they should conform to forty year old tried and true paradigms instead of fing about like this.
radon@woltiv @linkert yeah you nailed it. #Gnome ceased to inovate by changing stuff in need of improvement. They change stuff that is tried and true.
If you want less typical desktop environment nowadays, you just install KDE, tweak it and ship that as your new "desktop". You can get much mor radical then Gnome will ever be, and still have usable file picker.
If you want less typical desktop environment nowadays, you just install KDE, tweak it and ship that as your new "desktop". You can get much mor radical then Gnome will ever be, and still have usable file picker.
CJR
ryunosevi 🇪🇺🐧I've come to the conclusion that most of the people who criticize GNOME so vehemently have either, never used it in their life and repeat things they hear around, or have used it for an hour and couldn't/wouldn't adapt to a different workflow than the “traditional” one. Most are totally subjective criticisms about the design or workflow. The strange thing is that they care so much about something they claim not to care about and it's so bad at all.... Funny...
@woltiv @linkert @cjr you know, back when I first encountered linux more then two decades ago, Gnome was already "the good desktop with bad file picker". If new filepicker really, actually definitely fixes those issues as you say, it will prove they were real issues. And that gnome devs were utterly wrong when they choose to ignore them. And their users.
Which is point of the article, so file picker is relevant either way.
BuZZ-dEE ☮️ 🇺🇦 🇪🇺 🇩🇪@woltiv An index with anchor links would be really great.
Luis@woltiv I just come along your article and totally agree with you.
I started using Linux from the end of the 90s and I used gnome as my desktop until they released gnome 3, I really wanted to give it a try but I just couldn't, then switched to mate and stick with it until Cinnamon was good enough for me. Over the years I tried to return to gnome (probably because of nostalgia) but I found the same problems as yourself every single time. It is incredible how other new desktops are far better.
I started using Linux from the end of the 90s and I used gnome as my desktop until they released gnome 3, I really wanted to give it a try but I just couldn't, then switched to mate and stick with it until Cinnamon was good enough for me. Over the years I tried to return to gnome (probably because of nostalgia) but I found the same problems as yourself every single time. It is incredible how other new desktops are far better.
Akeem 
@woltiv I am a GNOME user myself, but this article is AWESOME and has a lot of much-needed critique
Janneke@woltiv
It's unclear to me what you dislike, expect or compare against.
To me, KDE is shit (starting off using the terrible, proprietary QT library, terrible defaults and waaaay too many options in an effort to get it somewhat right) and Gnome is at least philosophically right, and pretty OK as far as a Microsoft-like DE goes.
Problem is, I believe a Microsoft-like DE is a terrible way to interact with a computer, I'm using EXWM and am pretty happy with that.