webhatMy eldest teen is giving me presentations and sending memos on why they should have TikTok
Should I let them have TikTok?
Boost 
Ok
Sure, unlimited
Ok, but with limitations
No, absolutely not
Other…
Boaty McBoatFace
Poll ended at .
If it's time limited, how much time?
> 90 minutes
> 60 minutes
> 30 minutes
> 15 minutes
> 5 minutes
Still Boaty McBoatFace
Poll ended at .
Piers Cawley@webhat I voted for Boaty McBoatface both times, but it really depends on whether you see merit in their argument, surely?
@pdcawley absolutely, I see some merit in their argument. And I want to ensure I'm not being unduly biased by my own feelings about an app. If everyone says I'm wrong, I'll reconsider. And, of course, my partner gets a say too
They've been coming to me, hopefully, because I'll be able to better judge the technical merits of their argument, rather that that I'm a soft touch
Enola Knezevic@webhat The American one or the Chinese one? Is there a Fedi alternative? I know that people go where their friends are, but perhaps they could influence their friends.
Chewie
Dźwiedziu
Lone@webhat Other: Is there a mastodon space for teens? In that case - maybe that would be a good option?
@Lone I was thinking about loops as an alternative, although I'm not sure about the privacy there
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial@webhat are they 13 or over? if not, it's a ToS/CoPPA violation anyway and a moot point.
if so, it's hard to answer without deeper context. I would at least want to investigate the parental controls that are available before saying yes.
I'm personally extremely not a fan of shorts/tiktok, but kids are their own people with their own preferences so I'm also hesitant to suggest controlling their media usage. it's a difficult line to balance.
@webhat (oh, right, you said teen so CoPPA is irrelevant, derp. sorry, got a cold so I'm a bit out of it)
@gsuberland no worries, thanks for replying. I purposely left out context, because privacy 😊
Parental controls are limited to phone/app time limits, Android Family Link. The parental controls and limits are not great, similar to what the commercial Google has, just adapted for families. Potentially I could harden the phone to lock it down more, although treating my children as the enemy is not really what I want
Carolyn
Piers Beckley@webhat @mayintoronto They’re giving you presentations and memos rather than just doing it.
Which they absolutely have the capacity to do without your permission, right now.
You have an extremely smart teen right there, and the ability to teach them that you can be trusted to trust them.
zygmyd
Paco Hope@webhat It’s all context dependent. I think the -goal- is unlimited because when they’re an adult, that’s how they have to learn to live. Whether they’re ready for that now is really your call.
If their moral compass is set right and their skills at debunking bullshit are up to it, they’re ready. If not, that’s what they work on to show they’re ready.
“Dad! Dad! I want to go swimming in toxic waste! All my friends are swimming in it and they love it.”
“Ok. Show me you can put on the right PPE and work it, and I’ll let you go swim in the toxic waste…”
😛
Pseudonymous 
How old are they and what's the maturity modifier? (Don't answer. That could reveal who you are!) 
12: No. 
13: They can try the app with you present. 
14: Yes, and time limitations are ridiculous because they will start rebelling; you can't be everywhere. They will get a secret phone you don't even know about and keep it at school and why do their socks smell like wet dog. 
Kiloku - Secretário do Caos@webhat I'd propose to the kid that the account should be registered to an email address you control, and you should know the account's password. Then you can regularly check what is getting recommended by the algorithm. Just to reiterate, this should be conditions they consent to, nothing done behind their back.
[object Object]@webhat tiktok is awful for a number of reasons that you and I already know but your teen does not care about (which isn’t a critique, it’s just how it is)
however telling them “no absolutely not” will be ineffective at best
probably the best bet is to allow tiktok, but counter-present on its dangers and on alternatives. tiktok probably isn’t the only awful system they’ll be exposed to by the time they start their career so it’s a good opportunity to teach stuff like opsec and modalities
@webhat depending on other context, it might make sense to set a boundary like “hey if you end up making videos run them by me first” so you can make sure they’re not doxing themselves or doing tiktok pranks (aaaaaaaaaaaaa) that might get them punched or arrested
at that point it’s more of a hobby, and in my limited experience (please take all of this with a grain of salt) it’s very ineffective to limit a teen’s hobbies, but getting legitimately involved can help make it a positive hobby
5tormGr0m
tautology@webhat A cautionary tale: eldest son complained that his data limit had been used up. We dug down and found that he had been using YouTube (for shorts) for excessive periods. At the worst point it was 8 hours on one school day!
It was at this point where we had to discuss addiction and the perils of short form content, including getting him to understand that he couldn't recall anything about the videos he watched. And that he had been sneaking his phone into his room (which is against house rules, I don't even take my phone into the bedroom).
He admitted he had a problem (usage stats helped there) and has chosen to self moderate and leave his phone downstairs. I have an over-ride fingerprint on his phone so can ensure he's following the rules.
So, yes, give them access: it's entertainment for that generation. But beware of the "constant" watch and addiction of short form media content and monitor usage.
·J Mopp@webhat Presentations and memos is a good sign. I would say "yes, but use responsibly" and talk about how people used social media and the internet before recommendation algorithms took over
Helma@helma they could have chosen to use AI to generate the presentations or memos, they didn't, they gave a thoughtful proposal which came from them. They expressly came and asked, even though, they and I knew, they would be able to use TikTok in other ways