Mastodawn

Serge from Babka

I'm going to launch a new Free Culture project soonish and I am curious about where to have real time chat for it.

Looking at my options, none of them make me thrilled.

- Matrix

Matrix is nice, but I've had so many problems with it, it's clunky UI, it's clients not working right, encryption being funky, losing credentials, losing state. Running my own server turned out to be near impossible.

- Discord

Discord is the easiest to use, but it's entirely non-Free. And recently there's the age verification scandal. On the other hand, there's a huge community, it's very normalized, extremely easy to use.

- Libera Chat (IRC)

IRC seems like a good place to do this, but one of the folks on Babka has told me he's been kicked out of Libera for being a "genocider" because he speaks Hebrew and they banned "Zionist channels"

I'm at a bit off a loss. Anyone have thoughts?

#FreeSoftware #Communication #FreeCulture #Discord #Matrix #IRC #Libera #OpenSource

Serge from Babka 4d ago

A lot of folks are offering me ideas that would make sense for an internal organization, such as XMPP, Mattersmost, Zulip, etc.

This isn't for that. It's for internal work, it's for people to join in and get support, etc.

mohnblumengesang 4d ago

hmm. so everything of those options require you to have an account. so i think zulip/discourse for instance would indeed make sense. because then you are independent.

i think the question is what kind of UI you want.

Because, i think discord is currently shifting and many people are interested in switching.

maybe this thread is helpful? https://lobste.rs/s/fna9yv/request_for_sources_discord

Specifically, i've heard good things about https://fluxer.app/

Request for sources: Discord alternatives

163 comments

Lobsters

jewish_pride_flag

@serge Soprani.ca's support/community chat has a web portal that anyone can join. https://soprani.ca/

Soprani.ca

@serge what about Signal?

Serge from Babka 4d ago

Signal isn't really means for this:

- Signal doesn't have public directory or easy self-invite
- Requires phone numbers (no pseudonymous participation)
- Groups are called at ~1,000 members
- Signal doesn't have persistent, searchable, public message history
- Signal doesn't have threading
- Signal doesn't have channels or topic-based topics
- Signal doesn't have/allow bots, webhooks, or integrations
- Signal doesn't have good moderation and role/permission tooling
- Signal doesn't have a web client, so it's high friction
- Signal doesn't have linkable message URLs for referencing past discussions

Signal is meant for private communication, which isn't what I'm looking for here.

My issues with Signal are, apart from phone number requirement:

It's inextricably integrated into AWS and Google services. Which I don't like enough to give it a chance.

There is no first class client for my OS. I don't run Android or iOS, but classical Linux, i.e. I'm out.

But I would love to work for Signal. They pay *extremely* well, it's incredible.

@serge Pseudonymity is possible now (but it still requires a phone number at registration). But you made many more points, so i figured you maybe right.

Have you thought about Lemmy?

Serge from Babka 4d ago

Real time chat, not forum. Also... I low key hate the Fediverse.

@serge Mattermost maybe? There are already some FOSS projects which use this.

@serge maybe your own IRC server?

Or Signal groups?

Or your own Rocket Chat server?

Or Delta Chat (that just proved itself as tool for the opposition in Iran)?
https://delta.chat

Delta Chat: Delta Chat, decentralized secure messenger

Delta Chat is a decentralized and secure messenger app 💬 Reliable instant messaging with multi-profile and multi-device support ⚡️ Sign up to secure and interoperable chatmail relays 🥳 Interactive ...

Serge from Babka 4d ago

Own IRC server,... maybe!

I'm thinking about one of the Discord alternatives for sure...

I just answered "Why not Signal" in this thread :)

@ArneBab @serge Delta Chat seems like an increasingly good option. Not sure about its overall maturity but given time it seems promising.

My personal thrill right now is #Movim by @movim:

https://mov.im/community/pubsub.movim.eu/Movim/help-movim-reach-its-goals-for-2026-LQext9

#FreeSoftware, federated, based on open standards, and almost as old as I am 🙂

YMMV, though.

PS: It has optional bridges to IRC, Matrix, Discord, Signal, Telegram, if that matters.

#federation #Jabber #XMPP

Movim • Help Movim Reach Its Goals for 2026 ✨

tldr; Movim is getting many exciting new features and is looking for your financial support to…

@debacle @serge @movim @djm62

XMPP with Movim was my thought as well though really any XMPP would likely work fine.

XMPP is lightweight for hosting and initial look seems Movim would be fairly light also.

серафими многоꙮчитїи 4d ago

@serge XMPP/Jabber might be a thing - you can run the server, various clients are out there, users can use their existing account if they want to and have one. I use it self-hosted for family chat

@serge Maybe Rocket Chat is worth looking into?

seeh #UnPlugTrump #SL5aura 4d ago

That's always an interesting question

Dane 🇮🇪🇺🇦🇵🇸🖖⚛️☮️☸️🕉️4d ago

@serge Stoat is shaping up to be very Discord-like. It's still young, but it has promise.

https://stoat.chat

Stoat

Stoat is the chat app where you are the main character.

Elischeva 4d ago

But Libera Chat isn't the only IRC Network. I'm just researching the whole IRC topic.

Avi Flax 4d ago

@serge take a look at Discourse

Serge from Babka 4d ago

Discourse is a forum system. I'm talking about real time communication.

Avi Flax 4d ago

@serge it has real time chat

kami_kadse 4d ago

friends of mine moved from Discord to Root App, having roughly the same funtionality

Serge from Babka 4d ago

"Not Just Chat Built for Action"

reminds me of The Maxx

"I wish it was time for Cheers. But it's not... It's time for vengeance!"

QuadRadical 4d ago

@serge Fwiw whilst Synapse can be quite confusing to host, Continuwuity (https://continuwuity.org) has worked well for me, and with it it's really simple to get a resource efficient Matrix server running.

Continuwuity

A community-driven Matrix homeserver

Tony FREBAULT 4d ago

Threema seems the best actually (single and cheap payment)
Olvid too but limited in free version

#FreeSoftware #Communication #FreeCulture #Discord #Matrix #IRC #Libera #OpenSource

Nicolai von Neudeck 4d ago

@serge mattermost is slightly different but might be a decent fit

@serge
Zulip, maybe, if threading is important? Or self-hosted XMPP or IRC, although I'm not sure about the moderation tools. Hard to make any suggestions with no idea what the project is.

Serge from Babka 4d ago

I'll announce soonish. :)

traashcat321 4d ago

@serge
I haven't heard anything bad about oftc, but running your own IRC server could have a few benefits (most of the drawbacks I can think of are already covered by running other infrastructure)

Michela Marie 🇨🇦2d ago

@serge Running your own IRC server is quite straightforward, and IRCv3 brings quite number of modern features to the protocol. #Ergo is an excellent IRCv3 server.

Highly flexible and extensible open source bots are available for moderation and automation in IRC, and you can also write your own bots and/or integrations with other services.

Serge from Babka 2d ago

I'll think about it for sure.

I'm also strongly considering it for home!

Serge from Babka 2d ago

It seems IRC has come a long way since I used it for the first time 32 years ago and is finally once again a viable option!

Serge from Babka 2d ago

Any thoughts on clients?

The last one I used was hexchat, but it seems hexchat is now retired?

jewish_pride_flag

@serge @michelamarie For #IRC clients, I use #Halloy <https://halloy.chat/> and #TheLounge <https://thelounge.chat/>.

Halloy

Michela Marie 🇨🇦1d ago

@kolev @serge I also hear Halloy is good, though I haven’t tried it.

Obsidian looks to be a really nice web client, and possibly the best option for non-technical users.

I’ve been trying the command line client, WeeChat lately, which supports most IRCv3 features, and is highly customisable, but probably not something non-nerds would like as much.

Michela Marie 🇨🇦1d ago

@kolev @serge mIRC for Windows has excellent support for IRCv3, though it is not free; there is a relatively small cost to buy it, which would add up if you have a lot of windows users.

Serge from Babka 1d ago

I used mIRC in 1995 on Windows 3.11. But I have run Linux on my machines since 1997 :)

Michela Marie 🇨🇦1d ago

@serge @kolev haha. Nice. It’s similar for me, and it sounds like you might like Weechat for yourself then. 🤓

Efraim Flashner 1d ago

@serge
If you go with IRC then depending on your audience you might also want a hosted web client for people who just want to drop in.

I've been using quassel for more than a decade for IRC and I'm still happy with it. I have the server sure on a VPS and the client on my computers. And I occasionally respond from my phone.
@michelamarie

Gergely Polonkai 2d ago

@serge I’m running my own Matrix instance since the early days of the project, and it’s far from being impossible. The only downside is the encryption problem you mention; somehow the guys can’t figure it out right for a long time (it *is* a hard problem, mind you). There are a lot of front-ends, not just the semi-official Element suite, and most of them work just right. If you decide to go with it, just give me a ping, i’m always happy to help.

jewish_pride_flag

@serge As for general team chat, I like Prose if normal #XMPP isn't good enough. https://prose.org/

Prose – All of your workplace communication lives here

Prose is your open-source alternative to Slack and Teams. Upgrade to self-hosted workplace communication.

jewish_pride_flag

@serge If IRC is good enough, I suggest spinning up an XMPP server and having a group chat there. No worrying about what other servers think.

Serge from Babka 2d ago

If IRC is good enough, use XMPP? Huh?

jewish_pride_flag

@serge Spinning up a @snikket_im container is easier than when I had to manually set up an IRC server.

jewish_pride_flag

@serge I think IRC + The Lounge would be great, TBH.

Serge from Babka 2d ago

Sounds like something to look into for sure!

Maybe that's just me and YMMV, but I'm annoyed by some limitations of IRC:

- no message correction (and I mistype a lot!)
- no multiline messages
- no formatting like *bold* or _italic_
- no message reactions
- no message replies
- no images
- no user and group avatars

Most modern chat systems have such features, including #Jabber/#XMPP.

Miriam Glitsh 2d ago

@serge @kolev if IRC is good enough the IRGC must be better? :p

#currentevents #gallowshumor