Mastodawn

In a recent comparison of engagement around a Leave.X campaign post,[1] someone pointed out that a female journalist who is active in the feminist movement and critical of Big Tech had a very different experience than others.

The Mastodon post was shared twice, while the Bluesky version was shared over 200 times and received significantly more interactions. This raises questions about tech-savvy spaces like Mastodon and how they reflect broader societal issues.

For women on Mastodon:

Do you feel that the patriarchal dynamics and male behavior in this space, which is still largely dominated by white men, make it harder for women to participate?

#Mastodon #Diversity #Fediversity #Fediverse #Feminism #BlueSky #Inclusion

Totally agree

23.1%

Partially agree

36.1%

Partially disagree

21.3%

Totally disagree

19.5%

Poll ended at Mar 7 at 8:58am.

everton137 Feb 28

In case you know people who could contribute to this question, please, share or tag them.

[1] https://social.vivaldi.net/@everton137/116130824160901072

Anthropy Feb 28

@everton137 wait maybe I'm missing something but, in this example I see the opposite, mastodon sharing it more than bluesky? or was that part about a different post

everton137 Feb 28

@anthropy someone commented about an opposite experience.

Anthropy Feb 28

@everton137 ohh right, I misread the first part, makes sense, thanks.

I can't speak for the people you're trying to poll here (so I didn't vote), but if I am to personally guess, the lack of algorithm is a double edged thing, especially for smaller accounts, but also for larger ones; you have to (re-)boost your important takes a few times for them to actually reach your audience, as it may just end up piled under "background noise". tags also help there. Bluesky's Discover feed has an algorithm

Anthropy Feb 28

@everton137 that said, I'm of course also very curious about the experiences of others, it'll be interesting to see what the results are.

MėMėNTō MōRi📍🇪🇺🇩🇪Feb 28

Ich finde nicht, dass Frauen benachteiligt sind.

Allerdings ist mein Eindruck, dass auf Mastodon generell wenig geteilt wird - bis auf einzelne Posts. Nachdem das Teilen die einzige Möglichkeit ist, zu Reichweite zu gelangen, ist das schon ein Thema.

Robotistry Feb 28

@everton137 I am lucky, in that I rarely get the kind of traction that leads to reply guys and obnoxious behavior (and I have no ambition to do so). But the dynamics here are like the dynamics elsewhere in the world - if you are known to be a woman, your viewpoint is more likely to be discounted by some percentage of your audience.

However, I suspect differences of the magnitude you describe are more a function of how they use Mastodon than of gender. I think people succeeding at "engagement" on one are likely to have interaction habits that are less effective on the other.

And the metrics are just different, like citation counts in different fields. Orders of magnitude less boosts on Mastodon can translate into a firehose of interesting conversations in the thread. A handful of likes doesn't mean your post hasn't been seen and appreciated.

keeps vis.social running Feb 28

@everton137 My experience here is different from other spaces, in that I run an instance, and work to build a community that is inclusive. I have agency here that I don't have anywhere else.

I hope that the community I strive to support feels that support. We are far from perfect. But we try. And I take my responsibilities here seriously.

everton137 Feb 28

@kristinHenry ❤️

MCDuncanLab Feb 28

@kristinHenry @everton137

I feel the same way. My mastodon does not feel predominantly male and white, but that’s because of who I follow and who follows me.

I don’t care too much about number of engagements with my posts but who is engaging with them, I’m much happier with that here than on Bsky.

It doesn’t matter to me how many ppl see my posts but rather that ppl respond in meaningful ways that improves my life.

Niko Trimmel Feb 28

@everton137 my theory is that Mastodon/Fediverse rewards follower numbers way more than Bluesky. A Mastodon account with lots of followers like LeaveX gets its posts shared massively, while a Mastodon account with few followers gets its posts shared rarely at all. Bluesky is way more balanced in the middle for most accounts in my experience.

TatiMitStift Feb 28

@nitrml @everton137
I think that is a huge, if not the biggest, factor. Mastodon solely relies on your interaction with visibility through hastags and followers. And also the instance you are on. Mine is heavily moderated to create a safe space for certain people, so a lot of people are on mute or blocked. But even if they weren't, I think it depends on how much you understand to get engagement.

Petra van Cronenburg Feb 28

@t_robinart 👍🏼 @nitrml @everton137

ikuturso 🇪🇺Feb 28

@nitrml This somewhat goes against the conventional wisdom that algorithmic feeds generally boost the high-follower accounts at the expense of everyone else which is one of the reasons many people dislike them.

There could be some nuance to this of course and Bluesky's Discover feed algorithm would presumably be possible to analyze to see what kind of behavior it is likely to produce. I do agree that chronological only still does not make finding engagement easy for a small account

Charlie O’Hara Feb 28

@everton137 the humourless mansplaining on here is ridiculous. I don’t think it’s the misogyny of Twitter, but the cluelessness of the undersocialised. I know women on here who say they won’t post publicly because of those kind of replies. I can see why Bluesky is more appealing for many.

Dr Kim Foale Feb 28

@awfulwoman @everton137 yeah, this. if you're posting about computers in a way that men like you will maybe get some traction (for better or worse). its the lack of people being interested in non-dude topics on fedi that makes this place feel like a boys club tbh - bsky and their ilk are far better places to get a range of views on pop culture, film, art, the news and so on even if i dont love it there. its kinda the r/malelivingspace of the internet at times.

everton137 Feb 28

@kim @awfulwoman I don't actively use Bluesky, except to share some things on my Leave X campaign account, but I believe I understand you.

I have a similar feeling regarding topics I miss seeing more often here on Mastodon. I had a good experience after getting active on Pixelfed for some time though.

https://social.vivaldi.net/@everton137/115406630546106475

Also, I think here is still not a place for small businesses that need outreach

https://social.vivaldi.net/@everton137/115400615193674994

everton137 (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Discovered a new corner of the #Fediverse that’s a lot less techy: @[email protected]. I’ve got two accounts there: one mostly for dog pics (@[email protected] 🐶) and another for the #LeaveX campaign (@[email protected]). I surely enjoy some tech and political discussions here, but every now and then it’s nice to take a breath of different air, so I’ll be hanging out on Pixelfed for a bit. Got a few interactions yesterday and started exploring the vibe. And honestly, I’m loving it. #pixelfed #Mastodon #art

Vivaldi Social

Rebecca Sieber Feb 28

@everton137 I doubt that this has much to do with gender. It is more about topics and communities.

However, in general, women have less leisure time than men. And in the Fediverse, you need to put more effort in curating your feed than on Bluesky.

pride_nonbinary

@everton137
Do u know this catgirl fediverse vs. mansplainer mastodon meme ?

everton137 Feb 28

@moin nope... 👀

veroandi_br Feb 28

I don't know what to think about it. Although I've never experienced any prejudice for being a woman here, I get the impression that most people think I'm a man because some used the wrong pronouns by default. Perhaps it's because of the subjects I write about, or my avatar and foreign pseudonym.
But I've realised that I'm often scared to show my face because I feel I'll never be taken seriously again - people might think that I'm too 'girly' to talk about tech, open source, self-hosting, and so on. I guess it's a residual effect of having worked as a web developer, being the only female developer in open spaces and experiencing condescending behaviour for years. If I can forget that I have a gender, at least online, then I guess I prefer it. Maybe that says a lot about the state of things?

@everton137 i've become so socially conditioned to operate in spaces created for and maintained by white men that i honestly can't tell; somewhat sadly, this is just how it is

@everton137 ty for follow, and having seen your profile, on what grounds do you claim "Founder" of @okfn ? Is this part of that reflexive patriarchal privilege we are hearing about? I was on the founding board when Rufus Pollock set up OKFN :)

everton137 Feb 28

@ultrazool @okfn I think you read misread it. It's written @okbr 🙂

everton137 Mar 1

@ultrazool @okfn @okbr just an after thought because of the judgement on the previous comment. As you can see, even a white man can feel discrimination when he is a bit proud of a small achievement, an NGO inspired by the leadership of Rufus in an unequal country like Brazil.

But someone from the board of the OKFN might be cool! 😉 I meant it.

@everton137 @okfn @okbr forgive the harsh judgement based on compressed reading!

And i don't mean to swank, left the board early 2010s when it started to get big, went from a shoestring punky vibe to big grants and staff... Rufus helped me get a campaign off the ground when it was just starting out, when no-one else would listen. It worked out well, i stuck around to get things moving :)

Stefan Bohacek Feb 28

@everton137 I'm a bit doubtful about the results of this poll. It would be more useful to see a breakdown by gender group (eg. male vs non-male). Plus, people who have been driven away, some of them very publicly, are not going to be counted here.

But definitely great to see the conversations in the replies!

Petra van Cronenburg Feb 28

@everton137 Feminist, journalist, woman here. I'm used to be in male-dominated spaces (I was one of the first women at a newspaper). Mastodon was such a space but it got better. The big problems here: it's very much tech people. It's difficult and takes efforts to build/find communities for other topics (mine was nature). Here's more mansplaining, reply guys, people who explain you your profession only because you are a woman. You have to be tough. And yes, we have a big problem with moderation

Petra van Cronenburg Feb 28

@everton137 on some instances for helping people outside the very-white bubble, the reason why so many people left.
Also a technical problem: if I know that a post will be food for mansplainers, on Bsky I can easily close comments at any time. Here I'm confronted with the crap.
Bad on Bsky: you only get many followers, if big accounts take you on their starterpacks. Here you get followers with good content.
The Fediverse got better but there's still much to improve!

Petra van Cronenburg Feb 28

@everton137 I just heard about another problem: if people get harassed here, not all users can see it and help. The haters use mostly non-moderated instances.The one who is harassed, can read it. If you are on a well moderated instance that has perhaps defederated the bad instance, you don't notice anything. So please listen to people who say they experience hate, racism, threats etc.! If you don't see it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist!

Vick Forcella ™🌈🌳❄️☑️:verifi Feb 28

@everton137 On Mastodon we ignore idiots.

WarmasterPalak Feb 28

As far as I can tell, your post gets shared by the people you're connected to: the ones on your server, those watching the hashtags you used, and those who follow you. Te smaller your group, the less interaction your posts get. I participate in writing prompts and I get a few likes and boosts for each of them. The posts I make without hashtags don't get anything.

If I was a thin-skin, I would chalk this up to the people on my server being callous and the people following me not really caring what I have to say, but in reality, what I post isn't anything anyone needs to engage with. I'm not posting things that people should be liking. I don't need boosts for my personal status updates. No one needs to comment on my problems.

When I have good news, which isn't often, I do get likes and boosts. When I post uplifting memes, they get shared. If you're trying to get clout on Mastodon, you're facing an uphill battle, Sysiphus. Call it inertia, but you have to get that ball rolling before you see any speed. I don't think gender has anything to do with engagement.

Very Human Robot Feb 28

@everton137 I'm not seeing data to support the assertion in your question.

everton137 Feb 28

@StompyRobot where are you looking for the data? Is it in a male white from a rich country bubble? It's just a question, maybe you are a queer person writing from a country in war.