Mastodawn

Simon Waldman Feb 26

@alice ....and yet European countries still (so far as I understand it) refuse asylum claims on the basis that "The USA is a Safe Country".

@swaldman @alice

Personally, I would recommend Americans who need to escape to Europe to move there via a student visa. Those are much easier to get, and you will have a much better status - you can get part-time jobs with them.

Ilka 🌐Feb 26

@juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice USAmericans need to stay and clean up the mess they created for themselves. There isn't enough room in Europe to host half their population. USAmericans have not done enough to prevent this, now they need to get up their lazy asses & stop this desaster. You don't want to hear this I am sure, yet this is the reality.

Look, while I can understand this sentiment, there are plenty of Americans who _aren't_ complete assholes and who are not in any way responsible for this mess.

Ilka 🌐Feb 26

@juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice I do know. I have lived in USA, have family & friends in USA I very much love. Yet, everyone who let this happen either by voting, or especially by NOT voting, or by ignoring, or by avoiding political talks with MAGA supporters is guilty. That would be everyone. Nothing will change if the "good ones" flee. It needs the good ones to stay and fight. Fact: we have no room in Europe to take them all in. Housingcrisis. Fleeing JUST relocates the problem to Europe.

I hate this line of reasoning because this is the _exact_ same argument made by German right-wing politicians for why Syrian refugees should return to Syria.

It's easy to say that others should fight for their rights if you are not part of the marginalized group that is being oppressed.

Ilka 🌐

@juergen_hubert IMO it is very much different. SYR's couldn't have prevented what came upon them. They couldn't have changed anything except for dying vs being alife. USAmericans are the only ones who can end the regime they brought upon themselves. If half of them flee now it is out of convenience, not need. No one ould be left to stand up & you will have an even more devastating situation for them & the world. Research the market sit. in Europe before suggesting to move here. @swaldman @alice

Please tell me exactly how, for example Black people "could have prevented what came upon them" with the Trump Administration. Or trans people.

Risking death while fighting an evil regime is honorable. Telling _other_ people to risk death while fighting an evil regime... is less so. I will judge Trump supporters, but I will _not_ judge others who have to make that kind of decision.

Ilka 🌐Feb 26

@juergen_hubert they could have done so much. 1 very effective example: they could have voted, instead of not voting, they didn't because many said "dems or reps are all the same" and added to the problem. @swaldman @alice

Most of them probably did all that, but they got outvoted by white cishet people.

Or their votes were suppressed. The American election system has ways of vote manipulation that are barely conceivable to most Europeans. We should not assume that the USA is in any way a functional democracy by European standards.

Joe Vinegar Feb 26

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice you are implying a level playing field, which is non-existent, and blaming the historically preferred internal victims of the USA. With the level of education, the quality of information, and the free time that they are given, I would be surprised of a different electoral behavior for most of the USA electorate.

Raccoon🇺🇸🏳️‍🌈Feb 26

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice
Black, Queer, and Disabled people turned out in massive numbers to vote for Kamala Harris, despite her refusal to discuss ending support for an ongoing genocide campaign. We were outvoted by the two-thirds of straight white able-bodied males who voted for Trump.

We can also slice this by age: while less extreme, more than half of voters over 45 turned out for Trump in all 3 elections, while the majority of young people voted against him, again, in spite of the deep corruption and incompetence of the Democrat leadership.

Only 1/3rd of adult citizens voted for Trump in 2024.

To say that minorities, who have been exhausting ourselves to fight against the stupid decisions of an apathetic majority which is willing to throw us under the bus because the Democrats can't get their shit together, and the overwhelming corruption of both parties, have somehow not even voted, let alone tried to solve this issue, shows a massive lack of understanding of the entire issue.

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice

Njord Feb 27

As an American who fled to The EU 2022, I feel like you have a few erroneous assumptions.

1. America isn't a healthy democracy, the correct term is "defective democracy" (which it has officially been classified as for a decade, I'll note), and the 2024 election was bad even by those standards, with the Democrats *appointing* a historically weak candidate who ran a weaker campaign with policy positions that were deeply out of step with the majority of Democratic voters.

2. That it would be bad for Europe if a few million (I sincerely doubt it'll top 5 million, and even that's probably *far* too high) Americans who wanted to escape fascism moved to Europe.

3. That anybiody would flee their home country, because it's "convenient." it's fear and despair, it's politicians calling for your arrest or worse, it's wanting to just live your life in peace.

Anyhow, to go back to the OP's first post, trans people in America are facing literal genocide (That's not hyperbole, it's the official opinion of The Lemkin institute (https://www.lemkininstitute.com/single-post/experts-warn-u-s-in-early-stages-of-genocide-against-trans-americans), so please don't tell them (or any one else targeted by the current regime for that matter) that they should stay if they want to flee.

Experts Warn U.S. in Early Stages of Genocide Against Trans Americans

Genocide scholars say policies targeting transgender Americans match early warning signs of mass atrocity.This piece has been updated from its original email version.Genocide scholars are sounding the alarm over what they describe as escalating attacks targeting transgender, nonbinary, and intersex Americans in the United States.Experts, including two former presidents of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), warn that the nation may already be in the early stages of committ

Lemkin Institute

Ilka 🌐Feb 27

@Njord I oppose the general "invitation to flee by students visa". Pls also read my 1st reply to the initial post. Queer are ~ 2% of the population = flesh, bones, blood, human, USAmerican, colored are ~40% = flesh, blood, bones, human, USAmerican, white ppl ~60% = flesh, blood, bones USamerican, ~50 men/women flesh, blood, bones, human USAmerican, ~45% non voters. ALL groups are flesh, blood, bones, human, USAmericans. @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice

Neil Feb 27

That's not what happened.

What happened is the Democrats put forth a candidate who was wildly out of step with their base on critical issues. The onus was on the Democrats to realize this and make corrections. They arrogantly decided to engage in brinkmanship with their own base ("It's either Harris or fascism!") and it cost them the election.

Ilka 🌐Feb 27

@gneilyo "wildly out of step" because she was female & of color. Her politics were not the main issue. Ppl disagreed with her ISR politics - I hope those are now happy with what they voted for & what is Felon 47 is doing for ISR. Most Dems want a 100% candidate they cannot bring themselves to vote for a 95% cand. Reps vote for anything white/male. ~45% did not vote that is the main issue. @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice

https://www.axios.com/2026/02/22/dnc-2024-autopsy-harris-gaza

Neil Feb 27

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice Not even the DNC believes that.

To millions of people backing a genocide with $billions in foreign aid isn't a minor difference of opinion, it is a deal-breaker.

The Democrats have been playing games like this FOR DECADES. They frame every presidential election as an existential crisis so don't dare demand anything of us. That won't fly anymore. They either need to start listening to their base or get used to losing.

Scoop: Dems working on secret report found Gaza cost Harris votes

The DNC's research on what went wrong in 2024 has been under lock and key since party leaders decided to hide it from the public.

Axios

Ilka 🌐Feb 27

@gneilyo this is the mindset that served you hell on earth. @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice

Neil Feb 27

@Ilka4You @juergen_hubert @swaldman @alice No, it is your mindset that voters should be happy with whatever shit their served. Blame falls squarely on the Democrats. It was their job to get the votes and they failed. If only they fought the Republicans as hard as they fight to hold back progressives like Zohran Mamdani.

The Orange Theme Feb 26

@juergen_hubert @Ilka4You @swaldman @alice What should we do?

@theorangetheme @Ilka4You @swaldman @alice

I dunno. I'm not going to play armchair general to people who are directly in the firing line.

Nuwagaba Gift Feb 26

@juergen_hubert
Is there still hope of making a change?

Always.

@juergen_hubert
That's great as long as we don't stop. Can i share with you about my project?

@juergen_hubert @Ilka4You

Chuck Feb 26

> Telling _other_ people to risk death while fighting an evil regime... is less so.

The subtlety of this is lost on many. While it is true the more people fighting on your side, the better chance you have of winning, it is the responsibility of those who risk less by fighting to be first into the fight. It is offensive to me when those same people refuse to fight because "it isn't my fight." THAT infuriates me.