jeslan
Aral BalkanRE: https://mastodon.ie/@EugeneMcParland/116121085193035222
Can someone explain to me like I’m five why the fuck Hungary is still in the EU?
PassengerMy interpretation is that this is a designated villain thing. Other EU leaders have been making similar comments about funding to Ukraine.
Amro has been@passenger
Nah, that's too simplistic. Hungary ruled by Orban has been objecting to anything EU driven that is too "woke", against the patriarchy etc.
@aral
Nah, that's too simplistic. Hungary ruled by Orban has been objecting to anything EU driven that is too "woke", against the patriarchy etc.
@aral
FelisCatus@amro @passenger @aral yeah but unless I am mistaken the far-right is also currently the largest group at the European Parliament.
Steffen Aarestrup@FelisCatus @amro @passenger @aral
No, FelisCatus, the far right Group in the European Parliament are ESN, they hold 25 seats.
@Aarestrup @amro @passenger @aral I would classify the patriots as far right too (for instance my local far right party is part of it). But ok, they're not the first group.
@FelisCatus @Aarestrup @amro @aral
I'd also include ECR in the list of fascist blocs. FdI and PiS are without question fascist parties, and those are the two largest parties in ECR.
So if you thought of ECR, Patriots and ESN and count them as a single bloc (which would be a stretch) then I suppose you could argue that is the largest bloc.
Pseudonymous 
@Aarestrup
@FelisCatus
@amro
@passenger
@aral
Could you link a brief rundown or explain briefly what the difference is for the benefit of those of us outside Europe who have about as much insight into your parties as you'd have for India's? 
@Aarestrup
@FelisCatus
@amro
@passenger
@aral
I'm looking at what comes up from a YouTube search and everything is either covering the Brexit issue from a few years ago, disunity among the far-right, or teen education about parliamentary systems. Then stuff about the U.S. congress comes up even when I put "EU" (in quotes). The only video giving short explanations of platforms or general differences is about the British parliament. I guess I have to go to the first paragraphs of each party's Wikipedia page. 
I am not a European so there's a limit to how much I can usefully comment.
One thing I will comment that is different from India and most other places, is that these are not parties but groupings of parties from the various countries. S&D, for example, is made up of the German SPD, the Spanish PSOE, the Italian DP, and so on.
This means that the big blocs like EPP are quite ideologically diverse: they have member parties which can differ significantly from one another.
Sounds like they have a house with a dozen kids that all have to shout over each other to get their way. No wonder the stereotype is that Europeans are cultural imperialists that think Americans are stupid and polite. We're politically introverted. 
@passenger @aral
Maybe I should explain a little; for about ten years me and my ex-wife owned a little "Tanya" in rural Hungary. And after years of Orban being in power I was very relieved to finally being able to sell (at a 50% loss). Hungary is beautiful but rural Hungary is very poor, most young people leave for the cities or immigrate and the people that stay have a worldview that is heavily dependent on Orban controlled media.
Racism against Roma is rampant. Off course this is just my experience.
Just don't forget that The Heritage Foundation based their Project 2025 playbook on the way Orban slowly politicized the judicial system etc. etc.
Maybe I should explain a little; for about ten years me and my ex-wife owned a little "Tanya" in rural Hungary. And after years of Orban being in power I was very relieved to finally being able to sell (at a 50% loss). Hungary is beautiful but rural Hungary is very poor, most young people leave for the cities or immigrate and the people that stay have a worldview that is heavily dependent on Orban controlled media.
Racism against Roma is rampant. Off course this is just my experience.
Just don't forget that The Heritage Foundation based their Project 2025 playbook on the way Orban slowly politicized the judicial system etc. etc.
My sympathies to you and to other Hungarians. I have Hungarian friends who left for the same reason. Oppression creates diasporas; I hope one day his regime falls and you can return if you choose to.
That said, I think the difference between Orbán and other European leaders is smaller than we think; on the big issue of migration he's not far out of line, for all that he prefers to bluster and bully rather than use euphemisms like the others. It is my belief that having him in power lets other EU governments do the brutal things they want to, and then say "sorry, we can't behave with even basic humanity, Orbán won't let us."
In political theory, this is called being a "designated villain."
@passenger
I had a few low spoon days which sort of interrupted a response I wanted to give.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear that I'm actually dutch. So, no diaspora for me.
Secondly, I get the "designated villain" theory but to be honest other EU govs don't need him for that.
Today I heard my freshly minted openly gay prime minister defend the most oppressive immigration policies yet. Most EU govs would gladly be rid of Orban because he is hindering them on even the weakest anti-russian or pro-ukrain policies.
The overall feeling I get is that the EU as a whole doesn't want to loose hungary as a member and mostly looks down upon Orban as a political leader. The hope is that Orban will lose the coming elections and the next president will be more EU friendly.
So, I think your idea just doesn't work. To use Orban as an excuse would make other governments seem weak and that's not a good look.
@aral Include me too
Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷@aral
…or at least all EU privileges suspended pending sensible team-playing.
…or at least all EU privileges suspended pending sensible team-playing.
Mark ⛵️🏳️🌈@aral I assume because the EU is petrified Hungary would become a Russian satellite state overnight... but I get your frustration!
If Orban loses in 6 weeks then hopefully things might change 🤷♂️
Ilka 🌐@aral while I understand & side with your position, throwing out a country is not possible b/c the EU contracts have no clause to throw out a country.
However: sanctions, penalties, freezing assets, suspending voting rights and excluding their voice are possible & imo much worse than complete exclusion/evacuation. Obstacle: such resolutions have to me unanimous.
7leaguebootdisk𓅽Apart from that, which is something I wonder about myself....
But the main question is,how can Europe be democratic if the vote of a single country blocks everything? Shouldn't the absolute majority prevail over the vote of a single country?
How ever can that be democracy?
Syphilia Morgenstierne@anon_4601 The EU has been selling membership under the pretext that every country still, as a member, has a veto right. Decisions require unanimity. Whether one arrangement is more or less democratic than the other may be discussed.
@aral
@aral
Fou@anon_4601 No, never, this would be the end of the small states and a huge win for Germany, Holland, Austria @aral
Toke Riis Ebbesen@aral because the EU doesn't want them to become another Belarus, a part of the Russian empire, literally at the heart of Europe?
CockneyLaurie@cockneylaurie @aral That is an overstatement. Hungary is definitely on its way, but there is still a good chance that Orban will be dethroned in the coming elections.
@aral I believe it's because they get more economically out of EU than they have to put into it. It is my impression that this applies to quite a few eastern members.
@aral
Maybe Hungary is the pain in the arse which will persuade the other members of the EU to support a switch to a more majoritarian system of voting?
Maybe Hungary is the pain in the arse which will persuade the other members of the EU to support a switch to a more majoritarian system of voting?
Michael ᚋᚔᚉᚆᚓᚐᚂ@aral @EugeneMcParland no expulsion mechanism.
katzenbergerThere is no mechanism for expulsion.
Even the suspension of membership rights according to article 7 #TEU has a huge road block in the middle of the process: the European Council, essentially the heads of state (or governments), must unanimously agree on proceeding to the last step, suspension.
In other words: it takes only a single other foul apple to prevent the suspension of rights, and #Slovakia is the other country on that tandem of foul apples.
Veza85UE@katzenberger @aral There are 2 votes in the 2 Councils. The Executive Council (EUCO) votes by unanimity for the final, veto-freezing decision. The Legislative Council votes first to unblock the procedure, but that's not a unanimity decision, it's QMV. Needles to say, the first vote alone could do uh... interesting things to the HUF exchange rate a month before elections, but they'd rather keep protecting Orbán's blackmail veto so they can keep their own.
Christo. London, England@aral
I think that regularly
I think that regularly
#Hungary blocks #EU sanctions AND $106 billion loan for #Ukraine, risking a domino collapse
Put about right,
Showing solidarity with Ukraine by showing the flag colors does not change anything as long as Putin and trump friend Orban can get away with blocking a majority decision.
Somebody please give him a cup of tea, putin style.
AND, get back the 10 Million the commision transferred unlawfully, give that to UKR instead.
Fabien
fakefur@aral yeah no... at this point qualified majority voting should take over for the EU, and if certain members *cough* hungary *cough* don't like it they should take their toys and go play somewhere else
it just makes the EU look like an ineffectual joke and adds fuel to the fires of those who wish to burn it down