Mastodawn

If you have to put up a sign asking cyclists to please use your shared pedestrian path, you've designed it wrong.

As a commuter cyclist, I want to get from point A to point B as fast as I can, without dying. Just like a car driver.

When given the option of riding on the road verge, or weaving in and out of people walking their dogs with headphones on and children walking to school and friends walking along chatting to each other, and giving way to cars at every little side road, then I choose the road verge. So do people on road bikes zipping past me at >30 km/hr.

I really like the separated cycleways that Christchurch city has built. They're safe and fast and well used.

I worry about the recent proliferation instead of "shared paths" in new road developments which combine cyclists with pedestrians and discourage bikes from being on the road at all.

Shared paths are useful for children on bikes, if we teach them how to ride around pedestrians, but they're impractical for an adult cyclist trying to travel 20–30 km/hr.

Please, let's keep investing in separated cycleways for cycle commuters. That's what will get more commuters out of cars, not shared paths.

#cycleways #bikeTooter #nz #biking

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

The new shared path in my photo runs along what is about to be a big new housing subdivision in Halswell. It's pretty empty now, but the houses are just starting to be built so soon there will be lots of pedestrians using it. There's a designated bus lane now, which is clever, but it means there's no longer space anywhere on the road for a cyclist.

LovesTha🥧Feb 20

@joncounts cyclists using bus lanes is one option, but it doesn't seem like a good option for the buses.

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@LovesTha Yes, that's what I'm thinking would be good here, although the signage going up is pretty clear that this is not what the road designers have in mind.

@joncounts I’m confused by the photo that just seems to be a construction/temporary sign and the road paint which seems to show a dedicated bike lane (*with bollards!*)

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@mez That allows the bikes to get up onto the shared path before the lane turns into a designated bus lane.

Simon Brooke Feb 20

@joncounts Bikes at ~20Km/h mix far better with cars at ~40Km/h than with pedestrians at ~5Km/h. Shared paths are dangerous and a nuisance, except where they're rarely used.

I mean, locally, there is one 900 metre length of shared path on which you rarely encounter any other users, and I sometimes use that; but generally, the road feels safer and is faster.

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@simon_brooke Yes, that's my approach too. I'll use shared paths when there are hardly any pedestrians on them, or when the road is stupidly dangerous. Otherwise, I tend to zip along using the road verge.

Simon Brooke Feb 20

@joncounts I prefer to stay in primary position except where the traffic is congested enough to be slow, or else light enough that there are clear sightlines. Keeping in to the side of the road invites drivers to pass you close, which is dangerous.

However, it has to be said that here (Scotland) driving standards have improved remarkably over the past fifteen years, and it's now rare that a driver will pass you in the same lane, which makes riding on the road much better...

Simon Brooke Feb 20

@joncounts Two years ago I was complaining that drivers would pass wide -- in the oncoming traffic lane -- even when approaching a blind bend, which is MAD; that does still happen but now it's becoming much more common for drivers to slow down and wait behind me until they can see the road is clear (or until I signal them past).

I think this is because there are more cyclists on the road, but it's a very good thing and I'm grateful for it.

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@simon_brooke Drivers here in NZ still regularly do crazy stunts like that, passing cyclists on blind bends without slowing down, or passing cyclists causing oncoming traffic to brake (which is insane!!). It happens often enough on my bike ride to work that I've started to note it down each time it happens. It's typically once or twice a fortnight.

(I've been keeping track of it to get the numbers to test whether drivers in big utes are more likely to do this than drivers in smaller cars, which is my impression so far.)

I'm hoping we follow your example and this kind of dangerous driving drops as the number of people cycling continues to rise and more car drivers figure out how to drive safely near cyclists.

@simon_brooke
Oh, that just sounds like a dream. We aren't there yet in Aotearoa. I get grief for using a whole lane even when there are two in the direction of travel.and the other one is empty
@joncounts

Simon Brooke Feb 20

@RedRobyn @joncounts It wasn't always this way! Like I say, fifteen years ago things were very different.

I'm not sure what's been the main cause of change. I've not been aware of very strong 'public information' campaigns. But more people are cycling, and, with electric bikes, more people are cycling in 'ordinary clothes'.

Roads around here are mostly 60MPH (~100km/h) speed limit, but cycling on them is now mostly pleasant and very rarely frightening.

@simon_brooke
I suspect I will be past comfortable cycling age before that happens here, especially on the rural roads with the higher speed limits. Mostly that's 100km/hr, maybe a shade above 60mph, but if you drive at the limit you get an impatient queue behind you pretty quickly. Most of those are 1 lane each way with a 4 inch wide strip of paint between them, and a narrow (or non-existent) hard shoulder. I don't honestly know if I would have the confidence to ride those roads. It's the urban roads with a 50 km/hr limit (about 30mph) which I'm mostly riding.
@joncounts

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@simon_brooke @RedRobyn That’s great to hear! There’s hope for NZ that there could be a big shift in driving habits when the conditions are right.

@joncounts The separate of cyclists and pedestrians by the museum is one of the best changes to cycleways. Even with students going to school who were quite aware of bike commuters, it was hard on everyone when it was shared.

And the split paths by Parakiore is probably the best block of transport in the country.

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@mez Yes, I agree. The separation by the museum is fastastic! It's much easier for pedestrians and cyclists when there are two streams right next to each other instead of an often chaotic mix.

Seán na bhFritíortha Feb 20

@joncounts
Melbourne is often praised for its networks of off-road bike paths, but a LOT of them are shared.

One I use regularly along a train line was created by cyclists just using it over a long period until it became official. In the 80s & 90s it was rare to see many people walking on it, but as more & more flats have been built along the line, it now has dog walkers & maybe 20% of pedestrians have no clue. For the last few years there’s also always been some dangerous bit somewhere caused by the constant building of new apartments.

Locals fought for some separated paths when part of the line was elevated, but the design put the bike path directly in line with the station entrance, so you can guess how separated our separated path is.

Until there’s some critical mass of people designing this stuff that actually ride bikes, I doubt we’re going to get a good result.

Jon Sullivan Feb 20

@seanos > Until there’s some critical mass of people designing this stuff that actually ride bikes, I doubt we’re going to get a good result.

Absolutely. I expect you’re right. It’s one of those tricky situations where more people will bike if our roads are better designed, yet our roads won’t be better designed for bikes until more people bike.

I sense that we are inching in that direction in NZ although movement is slow and we’ll be stuck with our current designs for our new roads for many years.

@joncounts @seanos

> ....critical mass of people designing this stuff that actually ride bikes,

I am unsure.

The meat in the sandwich is the pedestrian, not the cyclists.

I know prominent cycle advocates I will not name who do not get that cycles are vehicles, they do not mix well with pedestrians at >10km/h

Pedestrians are not viewed as serious commuters...

As a pedestrians I want two things for bicycles shari g my footpath:

1. Use a bell when passing
2. 10km/h limit for the bikes

Jon Sullivan Feb 21

@worik @seanos Yes, I accept that. Bikes are a mode of private transport just like cars are. Neither mixes well with lots of pedestrians, except perhaps when bike riders and car drivers are required to travel much slower than they'd like to.

All sorts of conflicts seem to be inevitable when most people in a city's transport network are using private transport instead of public transport, and it's designed for them and not public transport.

This is the case here in Christchurch, where I can bike the 21 km to work faster than I can bus it.

@joncounts @seanos

They mix well at slow speeds. At less than 10k/h all three modes can work together, like in Dunedin's main St.

I disagree that different transport modes mix well at slow speeds on shared paths.

George street is not really a good example of it working well.
First I need to say virtually all wheeled transport is going above not below 10km/hr When I do 10 k I get a frustrated queue of traffic behind me. Southbound gravity takes me faster unless I use the brakes. When I don't have the emotional bandwidth for malicious compliance and go with the traffic flow it's usually up around 20km/h.

George street is also not a shared path. For a start it's much much wider. Most of our shared paths don't even reach the 3m minimum for low traffic paths in the attached article. And even though it's legally a shared space without legal lane markings the different paving treatments and street furniture effectively separate different traffic modes. Almost all pedestrians stay close to the shop fronts and only go into the vehicle "lane" to cross to the other side. Contra flow cyclists invariably use the space to the west of that "lane" and only use the pedestrian space when that is obstructed. Southbound cyclists range at will across the cycle space and vehicle lane and avoid the pedestrian areas. Its success is an argument for people friendly central cities, and for separated paths; but it's not a shared path like the ones Sean and Jon are talking about

Some notes on speed: for many cyclists the point of riding is to be able to quickly and efficiently go places that are outside of reasonable walking distances. We all benefit from having car trips replaced by bike trips. I suspect enforcing arbitrarily low cycle speed limits would encourage more car trips and consequently do little for pedestrian safety. Aside from cyclists desire for shorter transit times keeping them below 10km/hr makes bikes harder to control. At lower speeds stability is affected, leading to erratic weaving (how slow varies with bike geometry and experience)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/125904730/the-hunger-games-of-transport-one-of-aucklands-busiest-cycleways-explained
@joncounts @seanos

Stuff

Jon Sullivan Feb 21

@RedRobyn @worik @seanos Thanks. That’s an excellent article that covers the details well.

“The Netherlands don’t tend to do shared paths at all; footpaths and cycleways are always separated (whether on a city street or in the middle of a park).”

“Here in New Zealand we have historically done shared paths to save money” even though the NZ Transport Authority (in 2021, before the current government) had upcoming guidelines that “shared paths are not encouraged at all, except for low-volume situations like rural pathways.”

It’s 2026 and NZ’s still building shared paths when it upgrades urban roads (while diverting cycling, pedestrian, and public transport budgets to build our new “Roads of National Significance”).

@joncounts
I'm actually becoming slightly less hard-line anti shared paths since I first read that article. But only in very limited circumstances. And I really don't like it when people treat footpaths as shared paths, especially the motorists who expect me to use them instead of "their'' road.
@worik @seanos

Seán na bhFritíortha Feb 21

@worik @joncounts
In the example I was thinking of, both cyclists and pedestrians campaigned for separated paths, but were let down by a bad design which ignored criticism, both paths being secondary to the rail project.

(And even the rail project is really a car project as it’s all about removing crossings for cars)

@worik
I don't know any cycling advocates who don't get that. And I even know some who try to tone police other cyclists, particularly around world naked bike ride and critical mass events, which they are convinced harm all other cyclists by association
@joncounts @seanos

@joncounts the problem isn't design, the problem is societal apathy.

Kiwis simply don't know how to behave in a shared space, no matter which forms of transport are involved. You show me a car endangering a cyclist and I'll show you a cyclist endangering a pedestrian. (Really, I see it very, very often.)

So if we cater (pander?) to that reality, we'll end up with a lane for walkers, a lane for wheelchair users, a lane for scooter riders, a lane for cyclists, a lane for cars, a lane for buses and possibly a lane for express motorists. Too bad there won't be any trees or parks left because there won't be room.

I have a counterpoint — you expect not to have to slow down for pedestrians. Is that really any different to a motorist expecting not to have to slow down due to passing a cyclist safely?

There's no right and wrong here. There is, as always, just a lack of care for people, by people.

Oh, and a slavish dedication to ensuring public transport will never succeed in this country.

Jon Sullivan Feb 21

@zkarj Excellent counterpoint. Yes, if we have a separate lane for each mode of private transport, things will be a mess.

I suppose the counter to that is cars take up way more space than bikes and pedestrians do, and some cities in the world have successfully transitioned away from cars being their primary mode of transport within cities, feeing up space.

Things would be much better in NZ with a good public transport system and cities built around those transport networks.

Like with bike commuting, there's this chicken-and-egg problem where we don't invest a lot in public transport until a lot of people use it but a lot of people won't use it until it's good. I think leadership is the magic sauce that can solve that.