psion1369What is something about how people view or use technology that needs to die?
The way they misuse it! :-(
Clicking OK without reading the box.
It won’t work, I get an error.
What’s the error say?
Let me try again. Ok it says enter a time.
Did you enter a time?
No.
starlingukYou’ve met my mother in law, I see. And my dad. Why do they do that? It must be an age thing.
That transcends all ages, it has to be related to the irresistibility of big red buttons.
It’s a “can’t be bothered” thing: age is irrelevant.
Windows upbringing.
Except that there are about 100 questions on the page and there is no prompt to go to the question you missed.
Many sites are just poorly designed.
Being completely uncritical of it. This ties into being unwilling to learn, if they’re introduced to word processors via MS Word, many people are completely unwilling to move to something else like LibreOffice, even if it’s not actually that different.
Back to the first sentence, too many people just aren’t willing to consider the ramifications of living in a walled garden made and maintained by foreign far-right groups, or if they are generally aware and critical of it, it usually still not enough to actually do something against it. That includes people who are generally tech savy, most of millenial friends aren’t Signal, including one who is a software developer and vocally critical of Trump and US tech companies.
And what makes so many people so willing to look at ads? I know way too many people who could easily use adblockers if they wanted, but just don’t.
My parents are older, in their late 60s and 70s, neither of them are particularly tech-savvy. They’re not totally helpless, they’ll usually do an alright job of basic troubleshooting like making sure things are plugged in, turning it off and on again, even look around a bit for settings and try to Google their problems before calling me.
They’d been using a copy of office 2003 or something like that age since that was new, they had the disk and didn’t feel any need to upgrade to a newer version. At some point they “upgraded” their computer to windows 11 which finally seemed to break compatibility with that old version of office.
Of the two of them, my mom is slightly more technically savvy. They had started using Google docs at her job before she retired, so she was able to switch to that with no major issues.
My dad couldn’t quite get the hang of that. I put libre office on their computer and told him it was just like Microsoft but free, and he’s been using that just fine since then.
Their computer, while technically compatible with Windows 11, seems to really struggle with it. They’re old retired people, they watch YouTube, do basic word processing and spreadsheets, check their emails, and go on Facebook. It’s not a beefy computer and they don’t need one, I’m pretty sure there are smart toasters or something these days that can do everything they need.
On a whim I stuck a bootable USB flash drive with Linux Mint on it in their computer about a week ago, and have had them test drive that. It does everything they need, they’ve had no issues with it so far, and even running off a flash drive it’s been running smoother than windows 11.
So when I go visit them tomorrow I’m gonna be making some backups and installing Linux on their computer.
Pretty much the one program they use that’s not a web browser or office software they use is Hallmark card studio (2007 I think) to print their own cards. Not gonna be the end of the world if they can’t use that anymore, but fingers crossed I’ll be able to get that running in wine. Wine HQ lists its compatibility as garbage but I don’t think anyone has tried to do it in a few years and wine has come a long way recently, so I’m cautiously optimistic.
So if these two old people can learn to use libre office and Linux, no one has an excuse.
I think Linux has a peculiar learning curve. If someone else installs it for you and does basic tech support once in a while, and installs a beginner-friendly distro, and the users only use very basic stuff like word processors and browser-based social media, it’s really easy, even easier than Windows. For people who know just about enough to install new software and reinstall Windows, Linux can be fairly difficult since a lot of the system plumbing just works quite differently, and these users are also tempted to install more difficult-to-use-and-maintain distros. Then once you’re very tech-savvy, Linux becomes easier than Windows again because it mostly does what you want and doesn’t fight you like Windows, and it’s often a first class citizen when it comes to software development.
Yeah, it’s absolutely a weird curve like that
I’m kind of in the second batch where things get hard, I’ve managed to keep myself from diving headfirst into some crazy hard to maintain distro and biting off more than I can chew, but it’s really weird not knowing how things the way I did on windows.
Yeah, I’d really like to switch to Linux, but I’m the most tech savvy person in my circle and I know I’d fuck something up.
You will! But it’s pretty hard to actually do lasting damage. If your system breaks, just reinstall - can be annoying, but it’s also a great excuse to try another distro or desktop!
So I’ve been running Linux for a few months now. Making the switch was pretty intimidating at first but I have a couple thoughts now.
If you have important work documents, or big collections of music movies, pictures, etc. yeah, that’s a bit of a chore, but again if it’s anything that can’t be easily replaced you should make backups anyway.
Once you’ve done that, you’ve got nothing left to lose. You have your backups, and while it’s intimidating to hit install that first time, trust me, it is really hard to totally brick your computer to the point that you can’t just wipe everything and either try again or even reinstall windows if you really need to. You may need to spend a couple hours googling on your phone and borrow some time on a friend’s computer to create a new bootable flash drive or something but unless you really try to you’re not going to totally fuck up anything.
Like I said, my parents have been running off of a flash drive for about a week now, you can do that too, test things out in that safe little sandbox, you basically can’t break anything from that live USB.
If you know enough to get yourself in trouble, you know enough to get yourself back out of it again, and you’ll have learned something from the experience. I’m actually at the point now where I’m kind of excited to eventually really break something to give me an excuse to try out another distro as a daily driver. I’m not trying to break something, but if it happens, it’s an opportunity to try new stuff.
Maybe I’m weird, but setting up a new computer, figuring out the settings, and personalizing it the way I want may actually be one of my favorite things. When I do that I always seem to find a fun new thing that I didn’t know was there before.
Captain AggravatedIf you have a second device, like an old laptop or something, that you can put Linux on to use it for stuff, I’d suggest that.
The short story of my Linux conversion was I got a Raspberry Pi for my amateur radio hobby. Learning how to deal with Linux as a side thing that had no pressure of “I might need my computer for something” really helped take to it.
Honestly, Linux is great for two groups:
A) People who extremely tech-savvy.
B) People who aren’t tech savvy at all.
It’s the people in the middle, the people who know just enough to get themselves in trouble, who want to screw around with things and do weird custom stuff, but aren’t good enough at it to handle learning a new OS, those are the people in the middle Linux isn’t well suited for. But the two opposite ends of the technical ability spectrum are perfect for Linux.
Generative algorithms, and the people intent on replacing artists with them.
Sterile_TechniqueWAY too many people don’t realize “AI” is just marketing bullshit, and genuinely think that LLMs and shit are literal intelligence in a computer.
For one, it’s driving every company under the sun to shove it into every product under the sun; and two, if we ever do create a true AI (what we’re calling “AGI” now, at least until marketing drives that one to meaninglessness too and we have to move the goal posts again), it’s going to be humanity changer in par with shit like discovering fire… and people will be confused as all hell becuase “wE’ve hAd tHAt foR yEArS!” cuz they’ll think its the same spell-checker-that’s-wrong-occaisionally-and-generates-nudes that we have today.
LLMs are AI—always have been. The term “artificial intelligence” has always been broad in computer science: it covers anything that performs a cognitive task normally requiring human intelligence. A chess engine from 1999 is AI. A spam filter is AI. An LLM is AI. Narrow AI, sure, but still AI.
The confusion comes from people equating “AI” with sci-fi AGI (human-level general intelligence, HAL/JARVIS/Skynet/etc.). That’s a specific subset, not the whole category. When companies say “AI-powered” they’re not claiming AGI—they’re saying the product uses machine learning or pattern recognition in some way. Marketing inflates the language, yes, but the underlying tech is real and fits the definition.
If/when we reach actual AGI, it will be a civilization-level shift—far beyond today’s spell-checker-that-sometimes-hallucinates. People will look back and say “we had AI for years,” but they’ll mean narrow tools, not the thing that can invent new science or run a company autonomously. The goalposts aren’t moving; the hype is just using the broad term loosely.
LLMs are AI - always have been. The term “artificial intelligence” has always been broad in computer science: it covers anything that performs a cognitive task normally requiring human intelligence.
On the contrary, it’s not “AI” unless it’s a fuckton of hand-programmed if statements. I dunno what this newfangled “neural network” shit is, but it’s way too brain-like to be AI! \s
The AGI thing has definitely started already - I saw a video yesterday from some AI tech bro talking about how their AGI is going to disrupt something or other. Your vibe coded Claude app is not an AGI lol
A lot of tech evolves and changes quickly, and a whole lot of people just dont like change, especially as they get older. It is also harder to learn new things as you get older. While it doesn’t apply across the board, the “can’t teach an old dog” addage generally holds true. This is not something that will go away. If you dont want to become that person, continue to exercise your brain as you age, and learning new tricks will be easier.
Somehow, most changes I’ve seen in the last ~10 years seem to be enshittification …
The problem is that you often can’t learn because the app’s instructions are a year behind.
TipponOr, for my pet hate with FOSS, the instructions assume that you understand the underlying technology.
‘Hey, we’ve made this fantastic new program for Linux newbs, it’s so easy that even your grandma can use it! To install it, clone the repo and pipe the results of awk through sed using grep. You can add flags in the usual way!’
As someone in the “older” crowd, I can learn just about anything, I’m just sick and fucking tired of lazy ass devs who can’t be bothered to write proper fucking docs.
Note: I’ve been writing docs for going on 40 years as part of my job. It’s fucking tedious to do it well, to verify what you wrote actually works.
No, it’s not that it’s harder to learn (it may be) it’s that I have other shit to do too, and some dumbass has made using whatever tool way fucking more obtuse than it needs to be and hasn’t bothered to even explain their approach, their paradigm, in the all but non-existent docs.
My dwindling interest in the the new hotness for tech is due to diminishing returns and how frequently it is change for the sake of change with zero additional benefit. I still learn new stuff, but only after it has been out long enough to find out if there is an actual benefit involved.
Seriously, the amount of things that are just repackaged stuff that already existed but now it is cheaply produced and unreliable is overwhelming. Brands don’t even stick to their purpose for a decade before selling out and letting quality slip.
But why has my perfectly fine painting program now less menu options and more bugs? At least there’s still pinta-gtk3 in the AUR for now.
I think we’re coming to the end of a 50 year cycle of rapid technological improvement that’s been a parasitic host for capitalistic predilections. Shareholders ride tech companies hard and put them away wet, fucking over workers and squeezing consumers in the process. Innovative and awesome companies end up getting subsumed into a shit whirlpool where the product gets worse, more expensive, and steals your data. So I guess the people in my example are the tech investors and MBAs feeding them, and their abuse of tech is what needs to die.
The way some people think everything needs to look fancy and gimmicky.
Like, I get it, stuff would be better blending in with their surrounding fashion, but if we need to get thru more than three layers of menu to get to something we frequently use, it’s wasteful, and if it’s for something critical like in a car, it’s straight up dangerous.
Not exploring the Settings menu of a new device. That should be the first thing you do when you first power on a new device. Most people just go with whatever the default settings are. Hell, some have never even seen their settings menu beyond the wifi connection.
I’m weird with this. Usually when I get a new phone, laptop or whatever, I like to use it exactly as is for at least a day or so. I like knowing what the “default” user experience is without me having to change or “fix” things first. Like playing a game without mods for a playthrough before adding big tiddie dragons.
I get that! Or maybe default settings are perfect. That’s rare though especially nowadays.
Its like using your moms phone (or PC) with chrome, no adblock, 6789764 windows open, and brightness all the way up (what’s dark mode?).
Meanwhile, i look for community fixes and hacks the moment i get a game shared.
I think we are just tinkerers, learners. I have been taking shit apart since I was 5, because I wanted to know how it worked and how to fix it.
Many (majority of humans?) people have zero desire to learn or do anything new/different. I thought everyone was like me early on, boy was I wrong.
Totally. There’s old duffers at work that struggle to open a word doc, but are strangely adept at Navigating Facebook…
And then there’s my girlfriend, wanting help with some arcane bullshit on Facebook because I’m ‘good with computers’ … but I’ve never used Facebook before, never even seen the page she’s messing with, and I only half understand what she’s trying to accomplish.
To be fair, what being “good with computers” actually means is being adept at figuring out a new thing you haven’t seen before.
Computer literacy is about synthesis, not rote memorization. I like citing this interview, talking about software as “building blocks with which you can create things,” as a great example of what knowing how to use a computer properly is really like. (Note that the point isn’t the specific detail of the UNIX CLI, but the principle that he can imagine a novel workflow and make it happen.)
AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
1984Its just not fun to learn something im not interested in.
I tried to learn how to play a guitar and I cant even find motivation to start… Its just not fun to learn, its so much effort when you are a complete beginner at something.
But as a young person, you dont know anything else. You are beginner at everything and your brain learns easily.
People need to learn innovation is not always progress, and that some paths forward are dead ends.
“Innovation” under late stage crony capitalism is just newspeak for “further surveillance and enrichment of billionaires”
LibbI would love to see a majority of people stop considering ’new tech’ as the magical wand to solution to all their problems, and see them stop considering ’new tech’ as a necessity in their lives. Whatever their age.
My favorite is when someone tells me that they are too old to learn about new technology, or that they can’t use a device because they aren’t very tech-y. No, you just refuse to learn.
Beware of that kind of shortcuts, they often can be very wrong.
Also, do you think old people not wanting to use whatever new app or service is more of an issue than younger people not be willing to not use same app or service?
Working in a store with a self-service printing center, I can tell you it’s a lack of wanting to learn, or even read. Instructions are spelled out on the copiers, but many of my customers will demand someone to help them before even looking at the device because they claim they are too old and not tech-minded enough to do it themselves. Actual excuses to not even trying.
Working in a store with a self-service printing center, I can tell you it’s a lack of wanting to learn, or even read. Instructions are spelled out on the copiers, but many of my customers will demand someone to help them before even looking at the device because they claim they are too old and not tech-minded enough to do it themselves. Actual excuses to not even trying.
Well, I do believe and hopefully you will believe me too when I tell you I regularly meet young people that can’t be bothered to learn much either. Does that mean all young people are lazy as fuck and unwilling to learn shit? Certainly not.
Laziness (like stubbornness, like all vices and like all qualities) is not an age thing. It’s a choice and a way of life.
It’s the way some persons chose to relate to the world around them in a mostly (self-)destructive manner. Real sad I will agree with you, but there is nothing new and it certainly not age-related.
Those ’old people’ you regularly stumble upon at your workplace were young people themselves a few years ago, maybe even your age, and I’m willing to bet a whole penny that they were as lazy when they were young. Exactly like those young people I regularly meet nowadays will still be lazy once they get old.
Those persons we talk about, some of your older customers and those of my young people, are (probably) lazy but that should not mean all person their age are the same. And that makes a huge difference.
BTW, you did not answer my previous question: do you think old people not wanting to use whatever new app or service is more of an issue than younger people not be willing to not use same app or service?
Paying for everything, especially things you can be getting for free.
The idea that if you’re not paying for something then you’re the product is rhetoric for suckers so they don’t recognize how they’re being fleeced.
Some stuff is indeed free, although, some other stuff seems free because you’re paying with something else that is not money.
Troll. Smiles and sunshine is free, all other things require some sort of payment in this world.
Linux nerds screeching about how Linux desktop works perfectly out of the box and with less time and effort then Windows/OsX.
It’s entirely counterproductive to adoption.
“I got my 107 year-old great grandmother running Arch from the command line in 20 minutes! Now she browses with Lynx and hosts a Matrix server.”
Yeah, I tell people Linux is like driving a custom built car. You can make it do anything you want and have absolute control and freedom, and often do things other cars can’t, faster and more efficiently and cheaply. But sometimes it’s going to break and you need to get in there and wrench. If you don’t enjoy learning, or work 80 hour weeks and have no time to tinker, don’t use Linux desktop.
I got my SO to change because they like to customize, and I’m there if if breaks.
I’m learning a lot. I am now at the point where I know just enough to break everything but not yet enough to fix anything.
I feel the same !
SethranKadaSomething I absolutely hate is when people say shit like “do you sell an apple charger?” The complete ignorance of what port your device uses or even what it’s called is infuriating. Look, you either have a usb-c or lightning port, and you only have a lightning port if your phone is from like a decade ago or something. You should know by now to look for usb-c cables. It’s especially frustrating when they get angry at me when they don’t understand what I’m talking about.
I’m a sales supervisor in an office supply store, and I get this ALL THE TIME! I once had someone argue with me over the name of the cable connectors and wondered why I didn’t know what they were talking about. Then they said, and I quote, “Well, to me that’s what I call them, so I’m going to just keep calling them that.”
SLVRDRGNPeople with no technical background insisting that “AI” is taking over and is sentient, even when I try to explain how it actually works. They refuse to believe that maybe all of those breathless “news” articles are clickbait hype-mongering.
“You just don’t like it because it’s gonna take your job!” Keep believing that, imbeciles.