Today we're sharing the first in a series of three posts from our leadership team, starting with @mellifluousbox discussing our mission, and priorities for 2026. Stay tuned this week for more.
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2026/02/connecting-the-world-through-thriving-online-communities/
Wow! We can't wait to be working with you through 2026 and helping Mastodon achieve its mission 🧡
@ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox well, if it gets implemented, it's gonna be limited to their own servers. thank god for decentralization. there's that, at least...
i'm not liking this new future we find ourselves in.
@ariarhythmic My guess is that this will depend on your admin to enable? Probably won't affect smaller servers, but I am not a lawyer.
Either way, I think it's good that the Mastodon team is looking into all the legal requirements around this, and other relevant laws, rather than leaving each individual server admin to figure this out on their own.
@ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
the problem isn't mastodon it's your govt
if mastodon servers don't implement age verification in those jurisdictions that make it law, those servers get shut down by that govt
so you're blaming the wrong entity
are you really asking servers to face legal punishment and then get shut down anyway?
don't get me wrong: be angry
*at your govt*
not mastodon
@ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
oh shut the fuck up you edgelord
just leave now then
good fucking riddance
all you're asking is that these servers be shut down and the people running them to face legal trouble
THAT IS ALL YOU ARE ASKING FOR
that is all your ego masturbation drama is good for!
do you have the fucking brains to understand that that is the only way what you're asking for will go?
you're angry about this?
GOOD
so go after YOUR GOVERNMENT
@benroyce Such a calm and persuasive discussion.
Good to know you are emotionally regulated, and prepared to argue your position on its merits.
Or just call people names and rage, I guess.
yes i agree with you that edgelord ego masturbation drama over what mastodon is forced to do, and blaming the wrong culprit, is stupid
and that it is more effective to attack the government for doing this. as long as one has enough neurons to realize the fucking obvious. instead of deciding that pumping up their ego with uselessly and moronically blaming mastodon instead like an emotionally unregulated cringelord because they like taking "brave stands" for the drama points
thank you
@ariarhythmic @benroyce @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
Your definition may of course vary, but if age-check in itself is fascism, it becomes hard to run any community or society where people don't know a lot about each other by other means.
(Eg. a small town pub where "everybody knows your name".)
The question of fascism comes up when we start talking about how the age-check is made, and what other information gets shared in addition to age. Or how that age-check can be misused, even in theory.
@iju @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
looking at the emoji in aria's profile, not knowing if they are trans, but if they are i understand why they feel threatened by id checks
if i were trans i would feel intensely threatened, physically, mortally, by id checks
especially in countries like my like stupid fucking country (the usa)
at the same time:
if i *really* cared about id checks, i wouldn't be attacking the wrong entity
aria's heart is in the right place but their brain is AWOL
@benroyce @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
Yeah, I noticed the emoji, and I do understand they're problably really raw about the developments of the past few years. Particularly if they're in the States.
Opposing fascism is really healthy! I'm just concerned that jumping the gun with the GmbH leads to being ignored when sensible applications of age-checks (and what happens if you don't participate) are done.
This seems paramount.
@benroyce @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
Taking the hard-line with fascism is healthy, but pushing others to any course of action without knowing the cost to them seems non-strategic. (In this case: turning GmbH into latter-day Pirate Bay.)
No one battle will defeat fascism, but not fighting isn't the answer either. To push the allegory to the breaking point, we want sabotage and raiding, not cause a Verdun that will consume our future as surely as fascism will..
@iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox
i have a better idea:
do what valve does
you need a credit card
they run a $0 authorization
*no id docs needed*
the server doesn't deal with sensitive data
even better:
now your cc is attached to your mastodon profile
your cc is right there for donating to the server later
as more people should be doing
snag:
germany doesn't consider a cc legally acceptable
but other jurisdictions do
@meowki @benroyce @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
Just so.
Also worth noting that some countries (at least my own) are enabling age-verification because you can't trust algorithms to show stuff people want/should see. If this is taken into account in the legistlation (which is still being written), then it wouldn't even apply to Mastodon.
Similar use-cases are probably found in other EU-countries, if not in Germany?
@meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
My understanding is that they will be making the software updates available to other servers that are also forced to comply or get shut down. Is my understanding wrong? It could be
@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
1. Mastodon's code already includes a setting which server admins can enable to set a minimum age for their server, which will ask for a date of birth to be entered during sign-up. The date of birth is not stored, only checked once. This has been part of Mastodon's code since multiple months now: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/34150
2. What they say in the blog is that they will audit the GmbH's own servers, which probably includes an audit of this feature.
3. The interesting stuff is what that "working group" will come up with.
@nitrml @benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic Age verification won't, of course, stop someone from setting up their own server.
... which, at least regarding the federation choices this little node will be making... Is enough of its own age-gating process that we will welcome all nodes regardless of age of their admins. 😉
@mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
which is great of you, thank you
...and your stance is dependent upon the legalities of your jurisdiction
so people who do enable the age verification are not assholes, they just don't want their govt coming after them
and your own govt may change its mind, then you have to think about it
the problem is govt
not mastodon admins
@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
what do you think about my post above asking for a credit card?
it achieves the same effect, and no one is getting a credit card without id. no server is getting your id and the security hassle with that, and you're not revealing your id anymore than it already has been
the big benefit: with your cc already attached to your profile, donating to your server becomes a breeze. and more people should be doing that
@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic Some do not have or want credit cards and will simply use other servers.
There is no way any regime can shut down access to every non-agr verification compliant server. Limits on federation woulf just split the fediverse into two networks which would inevitanly be bridged back together.
FL cannot even stop Pornhub: they just block conmections from FL IP addresses and gladly take Tor and VPN traffic
@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
you mean tor and VPN providers that spy on the people who use it because anyone using that it is flagging their activity as sensitive?
tor was started at the us naval research laboratory for dissidents in countries unfriendly to the usa
you think they don't have enough exit nodes to see what is going on?
and mastodon needs support
i'd almost (i said almost) support the idea of mandatory ccs on sign up with or without id laws
@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic .onion access bypasses exit nodes enrirely. If Tor gets compromised dozens of nations find their intelligence services lose covert communication except by direct radio or sattelite. If civilian traffic is blocked or driven off, spy traffic then instantly stands out.
Too many armies need Tor to kill it
@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
.onion doesn't use exit nodes but it uses rendezvous nodes
and nobody wants to kill tor, the intelligence services love it
the foolishness is people who think something built by the us govt is perfectly anonymous
it *is* anonymous. to most every other entity
@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic Perfect security would require our own hardware down to our own fabs making our own silicon. Then we'd have to bridge a new protocol we own over clearnet on the model of the US Government's own SIPRNET classified comms network.
It's easy enough to tell who I am by my writing style. Things like Tor let my bypass censors more than hide who I am.
@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
understood
but we're now very far away from your average normie who just wants to see cat pictures
and that's where this topic truly lies
@janantos @LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
You're talking about decentralized identity
You can see vestiges of that in the project's history
So it looks like they abandoned that
Perhaps because it's not up to snuff yet?
But I don't know, I'm not up to speed
@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic The PR only adds an option to ask age, not to use a 3ed party AI verificstion "service" or read an ID. By itsrlf that's a nothingburger but I would still turn it off legal or otherwise on any server I ran.
Note that birthdays are dangerous in the hands of an atacker, so never enter your real one for any account anywhere. Let the account go if challenged
@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic
i yearly enjoy the services that sometimes say happy birthday to me...
on the fake birthday i've been entering since forever
🤭
@benroyce @LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic LOL, yes. I am so used to fake birthdays that I have to make an extra effort to enter the correct one if needed.
I oopsied my birthday for an online plane ticket booking after 9/11. No issue. Got to fly as booked.
@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
I for one will not remain on any server that asks for ID, treating such a thing as being a shutdown.If I have to move everything to the darknet I can and I will.
Single-user Mastodon servers hosted at home could make age verification useless.Torified federation if supoortes could prevent ISP blocking, as can mesh networking in built-up areas.
Even if this goes all the way to shuting down things like Signal, Matrix and other decentralozed altetnatives will be very hard to shut down.
Then there is Diaspora: I don't know a whole lot about it but it's supposed to work like Facebook UI wise but with distributee hosting on the backend
@LukefromDC @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
which is all fine and good, because you're talking tactics not emotional grand standing
what you won't do therefore is attack some admin of a server of thousands or more for doing what they *have* to do so the govt doesn't knock on their door
@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
No, I would attack the government and steer people to servers out of their reach. An admin hassled one too many times by cops might even need to move their own account to one if the cops go after their hosting
@LukefromDC @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
again that's all fine and good
but if you're asking a server to shut down with thousands of accounts when people can just enter a fake birthday it's far too dramatic
effective resistance is not about purity
@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron Some servers are much smaller and can provide their users wirh migration tips.
This is what blackblogs.org did when running a US based anarchist wordpress hosting server got too dangerous: they shut doen, and steered people like myself to noblogs.org and other non-US alternatives, plus guides to moving content over. I didn't lose any content at all
@LukefromDC @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
great
would you characterize yourself as the average mastodon user? or more broadly, the average social media user?
most people want to sign onto a server, browse, and post
that's it
you can't go after them for that, people don't have the bandwidth or time for the hassles
and we can't become a tiny whisper of a cryptic fringe to adhere to some unnecessary purity test
@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
That means they will find servers that fit their needs, just as folks in my position find servers that fit our needs. Mastodon is NOT like Twitter or FB wirh a single server farm and one set of rules for all.
@LukefromDC @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
zero argument
and if you make the services you talk about user friendly enough that the average social media user can point and click and zero hassle, even better
until then, some servers are stuck in unfriendly districts
and that's not their fault
the govt is at fault
@janantos @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
It's entirely possible to own a credit card and not use it
The point is to solve the problem of age verification without asking anyone's age, and using cc solves that problem
But you also want to solve the problem of addictive personalities who wind up stuck on gambling?
What
You ask far too much
Nothing can function in this world on this level of concern
Scope your concerns to reasonable goals please
@janantos @benroyce @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron
I believe that "credit score drops if you don't use the card" is an US speciality. At least I've never heard of it outside imported TV-shows.
But it's a good point to say that not everyone owns a credit/debit card that works online. Though how many of those people are on Mastodon, is anyone's guess.
I'm extremely surprised to hear this. Are you sure you were talking about the same thing?
Fast googling (which may not be exhausting due to many languages involved) indicates that "credit score" in Europe tends to relate negatively to missed payments and over-reliance on credit. Meanwhile in USA not using credit leads to a lower score. Eg: it's a loyalty feature.
(Which iirc is formally banned in EU.)
But I'm not intimately familiar with banking, or it's software.
But that's not how it works in the States.
The more you've used a credit card (eg. the more you've paid your loans back), the more loan you can get in the future. So this incentives you to use credit to buy groceries etc., because paying the loan back lets you loan more (toward a mortgage, for example) the next time.
What you descripe seems logical: you can only handle so much dept, and credit is debt, so your credit card potential dimishes your mortage potential.
Hm, I've read the text again.
The specific term in USA is "credit score" which you used, and that together with "credit limit goes negative" got me thinking you were speaking of US practices being applied to EU.
I said this wasn't so, and moved onward to the good point you rised of not everyone owning a credit card.
I think you missed/didn't know of the US context, and thus (from my perspective) started arguing for similar banking practises in USA and EU.
@gerowen @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox
toxic idealists don't listen
they barge in, make impossible purity demands, then get angry and call us the enemy just because we live in reality
effective resistance is having a big heart. *and* having a brain. know when to fight. know when to scram if it's a suicide mission or ineffective
toxic idealists harm the left
they poison our convos with impotent anger and brittle perfectionism, stifling effective resistance and not offering shit
somewhere along the line too many people forgot that you shouldn't let perfection get in the way of progress.
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