Tunahead
Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)The problem with ditching services like Discord or Google Docs or Dropbox isn't me, I'm happy to do it. It's everyones I need to work with. They aren't going to join my self-hosted service just to exchange work files or chat, etc. I've tried.
Maia
CatTrigger@grumpygamer That's been the truth of a lot of this for me as well.
Self hosted solutions require a lot of explanation to people.
Trying to explain Matrix to a layman is like me being inside a cockpit with a phone telling me how to land the damn plane.
AxaloteYeah, that sucks. I got away from most big tech stuff and other services/apps i consider immoral and/or unethical, but i can't leave, for example, WhatsApp, since doing that would cut me off from communicating with most of my country.
DesatyrI can understand you, even I don't use WhatsApp.
That is the reason, why I have got nearly zero contacts.
Everyone in Ireland I am asking to use Signal seems totally scared to use anything else than WhatsApp
Convenience is a bitch, people don't want to try the unknown and that's how big companies can continue being number 1 even with a worse product (e.g. Windows).
mcc@grumpygamer I've had luck getting people to collaborate via shared links over cryptpad.fr, but somehow I can't get them to make accounts there…
steppl... And they have this 'registered' initial tier where you not even give much more info than user + pass 🤔
JP@grumpygamer "network effects" are a killer! kinda means an alternative needs to be overwhelmingly better all at once to make a dent, which rarely happens.
@grumpygamer @jplebreton well the unsurmountable inevitability of network effects is the lie big social companies are telling you today.
In reality all that's keeping them from beeing disrupted is a big moat full of aggressive IP laws/lawyers around their business model (e.g. controlling access to "their" users)
Jean-Sébastien Guay@jplebreton @grumpygamer Isn't this the same argument people use to stay on Twitter?
@grumpygamer @skylark13 we're having this conversation on mastodon so obviously we three see the importance of moving to alternatives. i'm just pointing out that getting the masses to switch with us is a challenging social problem.
@jplebreton @grumpygamer Well, yeah, that's what I was wondering about. It's a hard problem but it has to start somewhere, and I think you two (and others) can be drivers since people will want to work with you.
Let's keep it up!
Ian Douglas Scott@grumpygamer I've been thinking for a while that I should host a Jabber server as soon as I can find anyone who wants to chat on Jabber.
(It hasn't come up so far. Shockingly.)
Benjamin@ids1024 I did set one up for my family way back when, we're now using that for all our family comms. Also setup NextCloud with a calendar shared across all family members. The last one was kind of a killer feature that got everyone around.
If you want to start with Jabber, but not make an account, Quicksy is a super-simple start for everyone.
If you want to start with Jabber, but not make an account, Quicksy is a super-simple start for everyone.
Ian MalcolmGoing to have to start working on my roleplaying group to ditch Discord as our online meetup venue...
And I'm dreading it cos it took me way too long to get them to stop using FB Messenger for arrangements and between-sessions discussions. 😬
Baron Engel@grumpygamer yep. Same here. I have clients who I can’t abandon.
nawanThe problem may be that people don’t want to create a new account for every service they probably won’t use.
What if we set up Keycloak or LemonLDAP::ng with the option to log in with Google, Facebook, and Apple? 🤔
RE: https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@grumpygamer/116044138710357343
@grumpygamer Aw, I'll join your self-hosted service, Ron.
Gary De'Snake@grumpygamer This is the exact issue I have because due to being jobless and having bad luck in school I have zero IRL friends and my entire social life depends on the friends I got online so it's crucial I stick to wherever they all are 😭 best I've been able to do is add one of my friends on Signal
Tobias Hellgren@grumpygamer I know the feeling. It's also quite hurtful when I explain that the selfhosted server is own by me and they still don't want to join. It's like they trust evil corpos more than me 😞
Christiaan Moleman@thanius That's not about trust though, it's about convenience and how many tech hoops you have the energy to jump through on top of all the other ones and how much extra hassle you want to deal with. Same reason everyone hasn't switched to Linux even though Windows sucks. It's just inertia. I wouldn't take it personally.
AndreasDavour@grumpygamer either you manage to convince them to switch with the same reasons you decided, or you have to use some kind of incentive. It has to be super easy, and preferably get some killer feature that trigger the want to do it.
I have been there myself, and know the intellectual arguments wont cut it on some individuals.
Michael Labowicz@grumpygamer my strategy is to use the popular tools to communicate and collaborate with normies, but to keep my personal data in places I trust. For example, use Google drive to collaborate on a shared spreadsheet, but use Libreoffice for any sensitive spreadsheets that only you use
Julien Colombsole argument that really worked for me so far (on the job):
"Sorry, it is illegal for me to use googledoc/dropbox/... I am fine with cryptpad or can provide you access to our GDPR compliant collabora/nextcloud/... tool.
ワンプ八九八@grumpygamer Thats the wrong approach.
You create an account for them and say "Here, there you go, log in and change your password after first login".
On the other hand, i never had any company ever that used Discord.
Ember is so tired of people. 
@grumpygamer even if it doesn't need to be self hosted, if it's horrible to use then that's just as bad
Idc if it encrypts the documents on the server, if it takes 10 minutes to load a single document I'm going to avoid it (ahem, cryptpad)
Jens Kutílek@grumpygamer Does anyone still know how to upload to an FTP server, perhaps? 🤔
A. R. Younce@grumpygamer One upside to the age verification madness is that it is becoming easier to get people to consider alternatives to the big online services. This conversation isn’t quite as hard as it once was.
Kevin Karhan 
@grumpygamer That's sad to hear.
- But maybe I'm too used to high security standards...