Mastodawn

Dave Nathanson Jan 28

@mekkaokereke There was a genuine push to end or limit qualified civil immunity for cops after George Floyd was murdered. Establishment Democrats resisted and even undermined that push, keeping in place a source of danger to BIPOC and LGBTQ+ folks, deflating the base, and setting the stage for Stephen Miller telling ICE agents that they have "total" immunity to kill people.

They should have listened to us then. They should listen to us now.

Lillian Violet Jan 28

@D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke The idea that "abolishing ICE" will solve the fascism issue is whiteness trying to shelter itself from the consequences of the imperial boomerang. And even if it DID work, maybe some care for the natives, the black people, the victims of forever wars outside the US, and other minorities is warranted. Maybe, just maybe, they should be considered humans without any effort too and protected all the same. I see a bunch of Niemöllers in the US, and they are terrified to be next and trying to fight to prevent that. But if the nazis had not come for Niemöller and his ilk they still would have been evil genocidal bastards, their inevitable destruction of the "desirables", in his eyes, wasn't what made them reprehensible.

@GLaDTheresCake @D_J_Nathanson

mekka okereke

Jan 28

Sorry, this may be my ignorance, but what are Popplers?

Lillian Violet Jan 28

@mekkaokereke @D_J_Nathanson I was clearly mixed up completely in my head by multiple people lmao, I meant Niemöller, I have been dealing with too many names recently clearly, I'll edit the post!

@GLaDTheresCake @D_J_Nathanson

mekka okereke

Jan 28

😅 Ah no worries! Glad I asked!

I thought that there might be a whole new set of books and biographies and primary sources that I have to read!

DTrasler Writing Jan 28

@D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke If the US comes through this, there is so much to be set in stone for the future. I see (as a white dude in Canada) so many voices from different groups saying "Yes, it's terrible, but it has always been this way for us." It has to be set right for everyone.

demofox Jan 28

@Dtraslerwriting @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke yep

@Dtraslerwriting @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke

Analog AI Jan 28

Absolutely it should be set right for everyone ... but that will require starting over; I predict the response will be:
1) We just need to breath for a bit
2) Lets start with these patches that will fix a bit
3) We will get to the root problems someday
4) someday never comes

I'll be pushing for more, because even though I'm white, and can pass for male, I'm non-binary, neurodivergent, and have been (at least partially) woken.

I hope I'm wrong, and enough people with power will be woken by the time we get through this ... but I'm depressed today.

DTrasler Writing Jan 28

@Retreival9096 @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
The difficult answer (and I know talking hypothetically is easy) is for the reconstruction to be led by those who were most oppressed in the old regime. People of colour, Trans folk, LGBTQ+, women. It's a big ask, because these (and the others I failed to mention) are the ones who have had to fight for existence. But they can build a world that starts with inclusion.

ray Jan 30

@Dtraslerwriting @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
This is not new for some of us.

DTrasler Writing Jan 30

@rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke Yes. I absolutely hear that, and it must not be forgotten. Fixing the US can't be about going back to "Pre-Trump". It has to be started with guaranteeing the rights of all those people who have never had the equality the constitution said they should have. And more.

Dadbod AntiFa Jan 30

@Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke We need to draft a blueprint for a new democratic US.

@beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke

Jürgen Hubert Feb 1

"The right to vote is inalienable for all citizens." or words to that effect would be a good start.

I mean, it won't stop gerrymandering as such, but it will stop gerrymandering shell games with Supermax prisons, and it will allow prisoners and ex-cons to actually have a say in the politics of their country.

https://news.uga.edu/total-us-population-with-felony-convictions/

Study estimates U.S. population with felony convictions - UGA Today

New research led by a University of Georgia sociologist on the growth in the scope and scale of felony convictions finds that, as of 2010, 3 percent of

UGA Today

@juergen_hubert @beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @mekkaokereke The prison gerrymander is obscene, so obviously I agree we should stop it. I don’t understand how your quoted language would do that. I believe that some states have affirmatively banned prison gerrymandering with more specific language.

@D_J_Nathanson @beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @mekkaokereke

Jürgen Hubert Feb 1

It is my understanding that right now, prison populations count for census purposes - but since the inmates cannot vote, it inflates the voting power of the people in the district who _can_ vote.

If the prison inmates also had the right to vote, this kind of shenanigan would become far more difficult. And the candidates of the district would have to court the votes of the inmates as well, which can only be a plus.

@juergen_hubert @beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @mekkaokereke FYI, all incarcerated people still have the right to vote in Maine and Vermont. For all other states what you suggest is a good start, although in some states it would require changing the state constitution.

In addition, voter suppression in jails by administrative neglect is something we already see in the US (people detained pre-trial normally can vote unless state law disqualifies them for a prior felony conviction). /1

@juergen_hubert @beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @mekkaokereke [cont'd] An additional strategy that people have tried here is registering incarcerated people to vote absentee in the district where they resided at the time of arrest, not in the district of the prison.

This matters for a number of reasons. First, people care about their communities and families. Voting in the home district gives them a bigger stake in society. /2

@juergen_hubert @beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @mekkaokereke Second, state funding is often allocated based on the number of people counted in the voting district. Giving people the right to vote in a far-flung rural district where prisons are normally located sucks resources away from urban districts where many of the incarcerated folks came from. It's not fair.

Apologies for the lengthy reply. I'm in prison a lot. This matters a lot to me, my clients, and their families. /end

Remco van Bree Feb 4

@beckett @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke the French are on their Fifth Republic (and I'm sure there plenty of issues, but I won't discuss them as an outsider). We should figure out what the Second US Republic should look like

Elisabeth M Jan 30

@Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke It should be about picking up reconstruction where they abandoned it ... i.e. explicitly acknowledging that some parties are bad faith actors, not just an equal opposite viewpoint, whose illegal actions must be prosecuted, not explained away or ignored as water under the bridge, and whose future actions must be closely and strictly regulated. Make reconstruction great agai---this time.

LeBonk Jan 30

@independentpen @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
we desperately need to learn from Germany's denazification project (which, itself, wasn't 100% successful, as AFD demonstrates, and is complicated by the whole two-state system during the cold war, but was still a hell of a lot better than anything the US ever did)

Daniel Jan 31

@LeBonk @independentpen @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke (not so) sorry to rain on your parade:
I wouldn’t call our denazification project a success story.
We had WAY too many Nazis in influential positions during the Cold War. This was true for judges, professors, police, etc.
Sadly, the English Wikipedia is missing all the NSDAP/SS ties of the BKA, and only has an article for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf, but that one’s a good primer on the founders of our federal police…

Paul Dickopf - Wikipedia

@danyow @LeBonk @independentpen @Dtraslerwriting @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke

ray Jan 31

Paperclip. Operation Paperclip.

Dave Nathanson Jan 31

@rayocentric @danyow @LeBonk @independentpen @Dtraslerwriting @mekkaokereke This is where my brain immediately went.

@danyow @LeBonk @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke I know almost nothing about this, but didn't Germany do some good work on its education system to make it clear to students what happened and why it must never happen again?

I was in sixth grade, TX, when a teacher told a whole classroom that the civil war wasn't about slavery, but states rights. Looking back I am appalled that classroom authority was being used to indoctrinate kids with that as recently as 1993.

LeBonk Jan 31

@independentpen
@danyow @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
yeah, this was more what I meant
that clear and unambiguous affect of "this happened, it is horrific and unacceptable, it's a mark of immense shame on our country, and it's our public duty to never ever forget it or let it happen again"
(though of course in practice that didn't stop them from letting it happen again, namely in south africa and palestine)

@LeBonk @danyow @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke right, my understanding is that in Germany, it is uncontroversial that the Holocaust and Hitler were horrible. It's not uncontroversial in the US that the Confederacy was horrible, that violence and voter suppression against Black people is happening and is wrong, etc. In fact people in some places are taught to celebrate or at least accept these things. Hate, and tolerance for hate, are two continuing political positions

@LeBonk @danyow @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke do you have insight on this @juergen_hubert ?

Daniel Jan 31

@independentpen @LeBonk @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke as anything involving humans: it’s messy.
As an absolute, the statement “the Holocaust AND Hitler were horrible” is *not* uncontroversial in Germany, and has not been for a long time (if ever) in the western parts:
The sentence “not everything was bad under Hitler/the Nazis” or some flavour of it was very much a thing you’d hear, as is “X years of remembrance must be enough!”
So I don’t think we nearly did enough.

Daniel Jan 31

@independentpen @LeBonk @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke what is true, though:
Holocaust denial is a criminal offence in Germany, as is the overt use of several Nazi symbols (such as, but not limited to, Swastika, Hitler Salute, the SS rune) for purposes other than documentation.
And yes, if you’ve gone through German secondary school, you will have learned about the gas chambers, and Gen Y and later will most likely have visited a concentration camp.

@danyow @LeBonk @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke that in itself is a huge step up from what we do here

LeBonk Jan 31

@independentpen
@danyow @Dtraslerwriting @rayocentric @D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
@JuliusGoat has noted in the past how managing blame and assigning it to others is a core part of any supremacist project, so one of the most powerful ways to counter it is to accept blame and culpability in ourselves where applicable https://www.the-reframe.com/blame-management/

The Thing That's Coming

An anti-fascist coalition of various factions assigns blame ahead of time for a coming calamity. A series about the election. Differentiators: Part 2.

The Reframe

Elisabeth M Jan 28

@D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke they're like movie producers - worried about money mainly, and making big bland assumptions about what the majority will say yes to. And like producers they don't learn from counter evidence: the indie films that everyone loves, the victories of the progressive left. They have resources and lack courage

FreediverX Feb 5

@D_J_Nathanson @mekkaokereke
We shouldn’t wait for them to listen. They won’t. They must be removed from office.

And fuck all the Blue MAGA trolls still badgering us to vote blue no matter who. Corporate Democrats are more aligned with the fascists than with the working class base.

Adrian Morales Jan 28

@mekkaokereke The United States of America is a Dictatorship, a rogue nation run by a criminal organisation, with ICE agents acting as its enforcers. They're all a bunch of mobsters willing to kill anyone who gets in their way.