Richard
Natasha 
🇪🇺100% tariff on the MM/DD/YY date format.
Chris
Poul-Henning KampYou forgot AM/PM, inches, feet, ounces and miles :-)
PernilleMsarup@Natasha_Jay @bsdphk “.” as decimal separators or “,” I don’t care anymore - just agree on one of them will you!
Haelwenn /элвэн/ 
@pms @Natasha_Jay @bsdphk One I specifically want abandoned is comma as thousand separator, as otherwise it would be just non-breakable space as thousands separators, and either dot or comma as decimal separator.
Although could also use units as separator, like done with height (1m60) and time (1h30m)
Although could also use units as separator, like done with height (1m60) and time (1h30m)
kabel42@lanodan @pms @bsdphk @Natasha_Jay
I think @mirabilos told me that is basically what the ISO recommends
I think @mirabilos told me that is basically what the ISO recommends
@kabel42 @pms @bsdphk @Natasha_Jay @mirabilos Not sure if it's ISO but yeah, there's some international standard which does this.
Was fun when I discovered it as it was what I was already doing for years.
Was fun when I discovered it as it was what I was already doing for years.
mirabilos
Anirban Mitra@lanodan @pms @bsdphk @Natasha_Jay In Indian Subcontinent , we use Lakh, Crore instead of millions and billions. So instead of 1,000,000,000.00, we write 100,00,00,000.00
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system
ScoTTY
Michael Knudsen@Natasha_Jay @bsdphk @mk sometimes I the train went off the rails when we abandoned cuneiform and clay tablets.
Jeff GriggI was just dealing with an AM/PM timesheet issue yesterday and today. (Yes! Having to fix it on a Sunday! 💢 )
And there's no "sanity check" or validation that reported work times don't overlap, for example. 💢
cd ~@JeffGrigg @bsdphk @Natasha_Jay Unfortunate misunderstanding. "Fix it on the first day of the week!" means Monday, not Sunday.
My boss was approving/rejecting timesheets on Sunday. 🙄
And their system is configured to notify me on my personal mail. (Otherwise I wouldn't have known until Monday morning.)
I'm not saying that that's bad.
I'm often online -- when I'm not out hiking, biking, etc. Fixing my timesheet after I returned from a 50 mile bicycle ride, and washed up, was not really a problem.
zed@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay AM/PM is so much better tho. And it’s not even just a US thing, look at 99.9% of wristwatches and it’ll use 12 hour time.
Von Xylofon@zed @bsdphk @Natasha_Jay Wristwatches solve a different use case. When you look at them, chances are you know if it's a quarter to midnight or to noon.
When you represent date/time in a globalised world, it's an entirely different matter. An event at 11:45 is totally ambiguous, so you need 4 digits + the AM/PM bit to be unambiguous. With 24h time, you only need the four digits.
@vonxylofon but when I wear a watch (which is every day), and my train leaves at 18h, I don’t want to have to do math while looking at my watch to see if I’m going to be on time or not.
ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ@zed @vonxylofon “Have to do the math”?! HAHA!
Oh, sorry, you say math as singular not maths as plural. I apologise for your education system. I’ll speak slowly from now on.
@zed I can assure you we all learnt to do that like muscle memory by the time we turned nine.
@vonxylofon @zed 3rd grade in Germany. So nine years old is about right.
12:00 isn't a special time for anybody anymore, like highest point of the sun, time for lunch or anything. So am/pm is just as artificial and learned these days.
12:00 isn't a special time for anybody anymore, like highest point of the sun, time for lunch or anything. So am/pm is just as artificial and learned these days.
@cd_home @vonxylofon ya’ll are used to it so it’s fine, but it’s not “better.” That’s the point I’ve been making.
You’re correct they’re both artificial, but the better system is to choose to do it one way 100% of the time. Either always 24h time or always AM/PM.
I only have familiarity with the US and France, so I can’t speak to Germany. But in the US AM/PM is always used, in France, 24h time is usually used but not always. Comparing the two systems: the US is better.
@zed @vonxylofon sure, a non-numerical, non-incremental representation of a number is better.
Maybe it's hard to imagine, but over here many people can't remember if AM or PM is earlier in the day. Not everyone learns Latin anymore, not even in Germany.
Maybe it's hard to imagine, but over here many people can't remember if AM or PM is earlier in the day. Not everyone learns Latin anymore, not even in Germany.
@cd_home @vonxylofon in France, no one says “AM" or “PM”, but it wouldn't be out of place for “7h du matin” (7am) or “8h du soir” (8pm).
Also, I am "over here." I live in France.
I use (and prefer) celsius, the metric system, and dd-mm-yyyy. In French I use 24h time more often than I use it in English (which is almost never), but in English I don't think I'll ever switch to 24h time.
@zed @vonxylofon No, don't _say_ it!
If you talk about talking, it's the same in Germany. We rarely _say_ "18 Uhr", but rather "6 Uhr abends". Or even just "6". Or " Kaffeezeit" (coffee time, probably slmetim brtween 15:30 or 16:00). Because speech tolerates more ambiguity and has more context.
But as a written notation it's just so umsystematic and error prone.
If you talk about talking, it's the same in Germany. We rarely _say_ "18 Uhr", but rather "6 Uhr abends". Or even just "6". Or " Kaffeezeit" (coffee time, probably slmetim brtween 15:30 or 16:00). Because speech tolerates more ambiguity and has more context.
But as a written notation it's just so umsystematic and error prone.
Pino Carafa@cd_home @zed @vonxylofon Indeed. In spoken English I will use approximate time on a 12 hour clock. I would say it's about half past three here in Ireland right now. No need for AM/PM as the context of the conversation makes that obvious. But when I need to write down the current time, it's 15:27. When I need to make an appointment I will set it for 16:20.
Verđandi K Soldusty@zed @vonxylofon
Math?
18:00 is 6PM. I don't know anyone who can't auto subtract 12 from a number over 12.
14:00 = 2pm. 23:35 = 11:35pm 🤷.
Then most people in the UK / Europe have probably been doing this since the 1980s (didgital watches became cheap enough for most people to have one).
@Soldusty @vonxylofon minus 2 or plus 2 is easy, yes. But it is still an extra step. Also complicated when 100% of things are not discussed with 24h time, and so if you’re recalling an event time or departure time from memory, you not only have to remember if it was 6pm or 16h, but then if it was 16h and you use a wristwatch (I do), then you have to subtract the 2 hours.
I’m not saying it’s not doable, but it is needless friction.
@zed @vonxylofon
I guess it's what you're used to. In the UK it's pretty interchangeable. Unless it's obvious from context if someone says meet at 9:30 I'll ask if AM or PM so I know what to put in my calendar which is set for 24hr time. If everybody used 24hr time I wouldn't have to ask for clarification, I would just know that, meet at 9:30 meant the morning, no matter the context.
I guess it's what you're used to. In the UK it's pretty interchangeable. Unless it's obvious from context if someone says meet at 9:30 I'll ask if AM or PM so I know what to put in my calendar which is set for 24hr time. If everybody used 24hr time I wouldn't have to ask for clarification, I would just know that, meet at 9:30 meant the morning, no matter the context.
@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay AM/PM is so illogical! It’s like someone took an analogue clock but didn’t know how to read it properly.
Elias Mårtenson
Washington's Dream - SNL
Sabrina Web 
📎@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay and weeks starting on Sunday. Why is it called weekend?
Wendroid 🇺🇦@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay metric or die!
Dahmonium
Dave Robinson
Björn@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay AM/PM is fine as long as it's spoken or short form written context.
@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay Oh gawd yeah. What time is it? "11:59 AM". *two minoots lateur* What time is it? "12:01 PM".
Even knowing that the M stands for "meridiem" (midday) and it's about Ante (before) and Post (after), it's still bat shit insane.
Ellen Bakker@bsdphk @Natasha_Jay And cups!
yakkoj 🦊@Natasha_Jay let's also do a similar tariff on non-metric measurement. We stragglers will be cutting over to ISO8601 and metric like we should have 50 years ago.
Mitsunee | 光音@yakkoj @Natasha_Jay horse racing terminology in shambles
WTL@Natasha_Jay @renchap YYYY/MM/DD is the only acceptable format.🤣