Mastodawn

China says it cannot accept countries acting as 'world judge' after US captures Maduro

https://lemmy.world/post/41168012

China says it cannot accept countries acting as 'world judge' after US captures Maduro - Lemmy.World

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Beijing cannot accept any country acting as the “world’s judge” after the United States captured Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro. “We have never believed that any country can act as the world’s police, nor do we accept that any nation can claim to be the world’s judge,” Wang told his Pakistani counterpart Ishaq Dar during a meeting in Beijing on Sunday, referring to “sudden developments in Venezuela” without directly mentioning the U.S. “The sovereignty and security of all countries should be fully protected under international law,” China’s top diplomat added, in his first remarks since images of the 63-year-old Maduro blindfolded and handcuffed on Saturday stunned Venezuelans.

TheJesusaurus Jan 5

And china are right in this case. They’re just also assholes

FiniteBanjo Jan 5

I think they’re wrong. Their statement is basically that international law is meaningless and that they’re free to wage war without consequences.

This was probably their endgame from the beginning, since they promoted and helped reelect Donald Trump. If it came out that Trump, Maduro, Putin, and Xi Jinping all conspired to make these events happen, I would not at all be surprised.

TheJesusaurus Jan 5

Well, international law is meaningless. As trump has just shown us.

FiniteBanjo Jan 5

Were you expecting the consequences to be instantaneous? Like, what, simultaneous nuclear strikes in retalliation?

Even if proceedings started immediately there wouldn’t be changes to trade for weeks at a minimum and no sentencing for months or even years, but honestly proceedings aren’t likely to start until the individuals responsible lose political power.

reddit_sux Jan 5

Sanctions against US like the ones against Russia.

FiniteBanjo Jan 5

And China. Yes.

reddit_sux Jan 5

In spite of many of its economic and military misadventures, China hasn’t invaded anyone as of yet.

That distinction is still important or else v shud sanction every country.

FiniteBanjo Jan 5

China is occupying Tibet and Hong Kong and claiming it owns Taiwan as well. It also frequently sends warships through seas owned by the Philippines where it has been illegally fishing and destroying Philippines fishing vessels. A couple of weeks ago Chinese authorities refused an Indian passport because they claimed that part of India belonged to China.

Also, China waged war on it’s own people in Tienanmen Square.

hitmyspot Jan 5

Hong Kong was returned to china by the UK as agreed when it was leased. None (few?) of the people living there at the time of handowver were alive when the agreement was made but they were living in Hong Kong on borrowed tine regardless, legally speaking. It’s a very different situation to an illegal invasion.

China not getting Hong Kong back as a territory would have been more damaging to international law and order and international treaties and agreements. International treaties and agreements are supposed to outlive those who agreed them. It’s between nations, not people.

Yeah, much as I dislike how it turned out and how China has been ignoring what post-unification rules there were on Hong Kong, the return itself was above board. Had I been living in Hong Kong in the years leading up I'd have taken the opportunity to get out if at all possible.

FiniteBanjo Jan 5

Idk about above board, the nation it was supposed to be returned to doesn’t exist anymore.

「黃家駒 Wong Ka Kui」 | (aka: 鳳凰院凶真 Hououin Kyouma)Jan 5

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successor_state

Example:

USSR --> Succeeded by Russian Federation and they inherited the UN seat and the Non Proliferation Treaty

ROC --> UN members voted to recognize PRC as the representative of “China”

Returning Hong Kong to China wasn’t the issue, the issue is that PRC does not have democracy. If they had democracy, I doubt anyone would care that Hong Kong became part of China.

I don’t think Hong Kongers want to secede, per se, they just want freedom.

Successor state - Wikipedia

UnderpantsWeevil Jan 5

according to data from the American Enterprise Institute

Don’t ask who pays their bills

While I agree you always need to look at who is saying what and what their motivations are, China has been investing in Venezuela, just as they have in many other countries.

velindora Jan 5

Wait, didn’t they just say it was a good template for Taiwan?

they are pumping out propaganda hard right now, it’s everywhere

hitmyspot Jan 5

That’s not from official statements, I believe, but what posters are saying on social media. China heavily controls social media, so it’s not a stretch to say that if the posts are not being removed en masse, then they tacitly approve.

They may just allow it to promote nationalism, even if they don’t have any intention of acting. Taiwan is certainly inching towards increasing danger since Ukraine, Gaza and now Venezuela has had minimal blowback. Russia has had sanctions but much less than required to hurt significantly.

if we lose ukraine and taiwan that’s two more countries going back towards tbh straight under dictatorship rule, 2 losses for the west and democracy

i don’t understand why europe is being so quiet on taiwan, i can only assume they want to keep the good times coming with cheap chinese goods

Sanction them then?

TonyTonyChopper Jan 5

“cannot accept” = asking them nicely to stop. It’s a nothing burger

Diplomats do not speak the same language as you and I sitting around sipping beer and bullshitting. In diplomatic terms that means, “We’re pissed off, though we’re not taking immediate action. Keep going, FAFO.”

Puddinghelmet Jan 5

There was even a Chinese delegation IN Venezuela at the time of the bombing wth lol 😂 😅

MrMakabar Jan 5

and they meet Maduro a few hourse before he was kidnapped.

Blackmist Jan 5

Well sure. They were buying most of Venezuela’s oil themselves.

MuskyMelon Jan 5

What’s wrong with buying a product that’s for sale?

Blackmist Jan 7

Nothing per se, but it shows that it’s not US heavy handedness or national sovereignty they’re worried about, but rather their own business interests. And they should be. China needs oil, and the US is squeezing their pipelines.

They also buy a lot from Iran, which also looks as if it’s being destabilised.

inclementimmigrant Jan 5

The anus calling the butthole an asshole situation here.

BoJackHorseman Jan 5

China is nowhere near a terrorist as America.

Every regime change America has done in another country and installed a puppet, their economic situation never improved under the puppet leader.

NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ Jan 5

They’re both pretty shit tbh. But also, Tiennamen Square lol

BoJackHorseman Jan 5

You’re gonna compare one bad thing done by China to hundreds done by America and claim both are equally bad lmao

NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ Jan 5

More of a joke, really. Both countries have committed countless atrocities.

selokichtli Jan 6

No, count them, by all means.

NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ Jan 6

Oh you’re right, Hitler A is a liiiittle bit worse than Hitler B.

selokichtli Jan 6

“Little bit worse”, “countless”, “big beautiful bill”, are you an American? If so, it really shows the USA barely maintains a Department of Education. If not, jeez, MAGA hats are everywhere.

Blackmist Jan 5

While also making notes.

MithranArkanere Jan 5

It would appear that the US got tired of all the jokes comparing them to the movie Idiocracy, so they decided to make themselves into Team America: World Police instead.

All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.

:(

No_Eponym Jan 6

Found the Cylon.

We agree, so let’s discuss the Chinese police stations in countries that are clearly not China.

BoJackHorseman Jan 5

Let’s discuss the American military bases in countries that are clearly not America.

At least the host country agreed to those

There’s real things to criticize, why pick something stupid?

raspberriesareyummy Jan 5

Ahahah. The host country agreed to those. That’s priceless…

DarkFuture Jan 5

And now I’m agreeing with China.

Thanks, Trump.

China is an authoritarian dictatorship that tramples human rights and treats its citizens like resources and speed-bumps and treats “free speech” as the joke it actually is.

All that said, they are pulling ahead on the world stage by miles. We don’t see it in the US because again… freedom of speech isn’t real, media is filtered, but if you travel you see whole other angles on the entire planet and just how much we don’t get shown.

For example, you rarely see news about it, but China has launched 3 space stations in the time it took us to make just the documentaries about the ISS and how huuuuge of an accomplishment it was for the world. They are going to be launching probes and setting up smart, realistic goals for exploring the solar system. That’s just not the kind high-tech, ambitious, modern project that we associate with our stereotypical imagery of China that we get fed here, but if you actually walk around in any of their new cities you will feel a distinct, sinking sensation that we’ve already lost.

raspberriesareyummy Jan 5

Three what now? Do you mean three modules for one station? Or three consecutive stations, one testing technology for the next? E.g. a short time station, e.g. a crew vehicle? I am only aware of one station, Tiangong. Do I have to do another web search? :(

INHALE_VEGETABLES Jan 6

There’s just the one.

It can only house three people.

raspberriesareyummy Jan 6

Yeah, that is what I thought. Still, I was impressed when they launched it as announced.

INHALE_VEGETABLES Jan 6

He may have meant one space station and some extra moon missions or something? They have been popping off a fair bit.

Honestly, I don’t care what country dominates and wins the space race, i will just be impressed that we don’t kill each other trying.

raspberriesareyummy Jan 6

I would prefer for it to be an international cooperation - but we’re just fucking this up big time :/

The current monster they have completed in 2022, Tiangong, was the third in a series of stations, the previous Tiangong-1 and Tiangong-2 stations were mostly meant to test technique and technology but were remarkable achievements in their own right. They currently have the largest and most active space program in the world. I didn’t even touch on their lunar program, their heavy satellite capability and their list of recent and upcoming solar-system probes.

raspberriesareyummy Jan 6

I don’t think monster is an appropriate word for a space station.

so yeah, Tiangong-1 & -2 were single vehicle modules for technology evaluation. Similar to Skylab in concept (single launch, test docking technologies & crewed missions)

as impressive as the Chinese space program is, the ISS is substantially bigger. Sadly, the world has not gotten their shit together in time for a follow-up station, and Gateway is pretty much dead-at-conception.

Oh the ISS is definitely bigger than anything ever sent to space, as I would expect from an international project that was built by a coalition of countries in better days, but it doesn’t really compare to China’s long-term goals and plans that have been on schedule. China is absolutely dominating space right now and will be into the future unless the US just suddenly gets it shit together and elects people who care about science and exploration, and even then it will take many years or decades now to undo the damage that trumpism has done to the US’s global leadership in space science.

The ISS is going to be deorbited in 2031, and I am not expecting a bigger, newer project to replace it. At this point I am not expecting to have access to health care broadly in 2031 in the US.

raspberriesareyummy Jan 6

No argument there. China definitely has the better and more advanced space program. The ISS might get extended again if it doesn’t break and once people realize there is nothing comparable ready by 2030/31, but yes, eventually, there will be no international nor western space station in orbit for the foreseeable future.

Pacattack57 Jan 5

For anyone that thinks otherwise I guarantee this opens the door for China to begin their assault on Taiwan.

𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠 Jan 5

I’m not so sure it does. China is openly arguing against Trumps logic here, and the US just did demonstrate their military is still highly effective. The US seventh fleet hasn’t moved away from Taiwan, and Trump is clearly signalling he intends to keep China down.

I’d argue Xi is not happy Trump decided to actually do something like this, because it increased the risk of his plans with Taiwan as well now that the US is openly hostile and MAGA cheers it on.

China needed him to keep up the whole peace pretense and for MAGA to stay on board with that. Now that that’s gone, Trump has cleared the way for more military intervention.

MAGA is actually currently having a bit of a crisis of confidence. One of the promises Trump made was to stop the empire building and international interference. Now he’s going around causing an international incident every 45 minutes.

He has gone from saying that it was a single strike, to threatening more strikes against Venezuela, to threatening yet other countries in the last 24 hours.

NotMyOldRedditName Jan 5

China claims Taiwan is theirs. Invading their own country to free it doesn’t really need any extra motive (even if there is) like what Trump needed, and is not playing world police.

Miles O'Brien Jan 9

Oh, so the US should have claimed Venezuela was US property, then they aren’t playing world police!

Translation: China just lost a $4.6 billion investment

We’re really going to war with them, aren’t we? FFS

LadyAutumn Jan 6

Oh, not just them. The fascists want to invade all North America and South America. We could very depressingly actually find ourselves on opposite sides of an armed conflict sometime soon. I mean, I’m a disabled trans woman and I am somewhat doubtful that anyone will be depending on me to shoot a gun, but you know. Maybe more like we could find ourselves being shot at by each country’s respective combat drones.