the UNIX v4 tape reminded me of this story by Ali Akurgal about Turkish bureaucracy:

Do you know what the unit of software is? A meter! Do you know why? In 1992, we did our first software export at Netaş. We wrote the software, pressed a button, and via the satellite dish on the roof, at the incredible speed of 128 kb/s, we sent it to England. We sent the invoice by postal mail. $2M arrived at the bank. 3-4 months passed, and tax inspectors came. They said, “You sent an invoice for $2M?” “Yes,” we said. “This money has been paid?” they asked. “Yes,” we said. “But there is no goods export; this is fictitious export,” they said! So we took the tax inspectors to R&D and sat them in front of a computer. “Would you press this ‘Enter’ key?” we asked. One of them pressed it, then asked, “What happened?” “You just made a $300k export, and we’ll send its invoice too, and that will be paid as well,” we said. The man felt terrible because he had become an accomplice! Then we explained how software is written, what a satellite connection is, and how much this is worth. They said, “We understand, but there has to be a physical goods export; that’s what the regulations require.” So we said: “Let’s record this software onto tape (there were no CDs back then—nor cassettes; we used ½-inch tapes) and send that.” Happy to have found a solution, they said, “Okay, record it and send it.” The software filled two reels, which were handed to a customs broker, who took them to customs and started the export procedure. The customs officer processed things and at one point asked, “Where are the trucks?” The broker said, “There are no trucks—this is all there is,” and pointed to the tape reels on the desk. The customs officer said, “These two envelopes can’t be worth $2M; I can’t process this.” We went to court, an expert committee examined whether the two reels were worth $2M. Fortunately, they ruled that they were, and we were saved from the charge of fictitious export. The same broker took the same two reels to the same customs officer, with the court ruling, and restarted the procedure. However, during the process, the unit price, quantity, and total price of the exported goods had to be entered—as per the regulations. To avoid dragging things out further, they looked at the envelope, saw that it contained tape, estimated how many meters of tape there are on one reel, and concluded that we had exported 1k to 2k meters of software. So the unit of software became the meter.

@joomy

@weirdunits

Export value of software per meter.

@johntimaeus @joomy @weirdunits

at least the Customs authorities had the sense to use metric 😁

@joomy I once spent a couple of years working to establish the taxable value of software moving between different corporate units. This story is extremely relatable.
Similarly brainless things happen today, all the time.

@matthewcroughan @joomy

Yes. When getting work permits for Argentina, my boss and I had to submit college transcripts, translated and certified, to show that were were "professionals" and "expert in the technologies."

But for both of us, college was more than 30 years in the past. None of the technologies were were using, selling, or training them on existed back then.

🙄

@JeffGrigg @matthewcroughan @joomy My dad had a colleague who bought (and expensed) a PhD from a dodgy Caribbean “university” in the early 2000s. Their employer needed them to go somewhere to work for their local subsidiary doing local dealer training. The visa they needed was open to people with “unique product knowledge” (I.e. no local would have the knowledge, a foreigner is the only option for the role). Due to local cultural norms, this meant being a Dr. Even if your Doctorate cost you £1500 off the internet… (the colleague was an MEng or MSc to start with anyway).

@joomy

I'm unsure, if I should be happy, that bureaucracy is the same everywhere, or horrified, because obviously, there's no escape.

@joomy do you have the source for this quote please?

@dancer_storm it's from an interview in Turkish with Ali Akurgal, though I cannot find exactly when and where it was published. I am attaching the newspaper clipping to this toot. I translated it to English (with the help of ChatGPT) so that I could post here.

the story was also featured quite often in Turkish media and social media. here are some links with the same story:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120317215245/www.kaldiracetkisi.com/?p=443
https://eksisozluk.com/metreyle-yazilim-satmak--3297121
https://www.haberturk.com/yazarlar/fatih-altayli-1001/2701300-2-bin-metre-yazilim

someone else at the same company telling the same story for a documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrOCb0rmvY

@joomy AMAZING. thank you very much for sharing this, we hadn't heard it before.
Saying "meter of software" would be kinda valid in Russian, heh. Somehow the word "meter" has become a common jargonism for a megabyte.

@grishka @joomy

How many megabytes per metre does a tape actually contain?

Tuukka, I suppose it would depend a lot on the data encoding and whether it is recorded linearly or using a VCR-style spinning head.
@joomy the moment I saw ‘meter’, without reading further I was like ‘oh, metres, means it's either tape or printout’ (in the 90s some Japanese companies did similar weird things but for paying for software development)
@joomy and there was also one case where software was measured in hours/minutes of a 9600 bps upload over ISDN
the reason for the latter: you could request session logs from NTT and they'd fax you A Very Official Stamped Thing with timestamps and whatnot, doesn't get more official than this
@joomy Kinda surprised this was so unprecedented back then. Surely people had sold non tangeable things before? Patents, blueprints of designs, maybe commissioned artworks, logo designs or films.

@amy @joomy

Logo design had paper. Blueprints had paper (blue paper!), etc. I think this really was the first case of a non-paper, non-material item to be sold.

@knud @amy @joomy IDK, music, talking about tape and information-only goods? But in the music case the single copy is going to be much cheaper.
@cvtsi2sd @knud @joomy well sure, but like, the transfer of the first copy from like, a studio to I guess a publisher
@amy @cvtsi2sd @knud @joomy On reel to reel tape, known as a master tape
@joomy Nowadays the computing power of large data centres seems to be measured in gigawatts. That makes about as much sense.
@tml @joomy the NSA used to measure their computing power in acres...

@pozorvlak @tml @joomy

Woaw, awesomeness!
Source for this? :)

@Tuuktuuk I read it in The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Puzzle_Palace @tml @joomy
The Puzzle Palace - Wikipedia

@felixthehat @joomy Yeah, it's a well-known story among the techie Turks. Ali Akurgal's father is one of the most prominent Turkish intellectuals, wrote a lot on the transformation of Turks and their state during the 20th century. So it isn't surprising that he narrates this absurdity insightfully.
@joomy I remember explaining this to a VAT inspector who was checking the books for our software company. Once I'd explained that we had exported an SNMP stack to a customer in Boston over the internet I then had to explain that it was open source software. In the end we agreed that we had done consultancy and that no actual goods were involved. It was a long afternoon.
@joomy A very pragmatic solution. I applaud the broker and customs officer for being that creative :)

@joomy

Imagining a story in which a corrupt customs officer snips off a bit of each of these valuable tapes ("They'll never miss it!") and stashes it in a box, hoping to someday be rich.

@catselbow @joomy you have inspired me to write a screenplay.
@catselbow @joomy There was a famous computer competition in the USSR that was thwarted by Soviet customs agents who took "small samples" of the stacks of punched cards during inspection.

@spacehobo @catselbow @joomy oh. this is better than tape snippets. customs agent who wants to make a better life for his ailing, i dunno, wife, maybe child, sneaks one or two cards at a time hoping to get a big stack that he can sell. does so and, by pure chance, it turns out to be some secret icbm launch code and everyone winds up in the gulag.

it's a comedy.

@joomy that's giving a whole new meaning to "selling software by the meter" 😸

@joomy

I once read a story about the people writing the software for the NASA Apollo missions. There was a functionary in charge of weight accounting, who came to them and asked how much the software would weigh.

They told him it weighted nothing, but the functionary had heard *that* one before and insisted—everything had to be accounted down to the last ounce. He demanded to see it.

They showed him a stack of punched cards, and he was triumphant. “You see,” he said smugly, “it doesn't weigh only ‘nothing’!”

“No, you misunderstand,” they replied. “The cards aren't going on the spacecraft. Only the holes.”

@mjd @joomy That person surely was a woman. Because the Apollo missions were programmed by women. 💪🏾
@mjd @joomy
I understand this person. They must have been burned before by colleagues not putting something on the list because they assumed that thing is accounted for by the machine it is attached to or something.

@jade
Like the programmers.

Zeros and ones have a different number of electrons in programmed /flash ROM.

Now that is probably such a tiny amount that it's immeasurable, but then transporting mass to the moon is certainly one of the most expensive exercises off the time, so you better account for all electrons going.
@mjd @joomy

@mjd Mark, the Apollo Guidance Computer software was stored in core rope memory so I can assure you it was heavy and the weight was not an afterthought.
@onekind @mjd That doesn't prevent double accounting the memory and the software itself
@flippac @mjd that's whataboutery and you know it
@onekind @mjd in the context of a nitpicking shithead responding to an anecdote about exactly what I'm describing - no, it isn't, and you can fuck right off

@onekind @mjd to put this another way: the functionary should have been asking not about weight but about bits taken up in the machine code

which, as anybody who's used an assembler for a non-trivial ISA knows, does not necessarily correlate directly with what's on the cards unless you're literally putting machine code on them

@flippac @onekind I love watching two complete strangers insult each other over something that doesn't matter, but I hope you will escalate to threats before I get bored.

@mjd @onekind I mean, I could vaguely wave a knife in your general direction if you'd find it more exciting?

Point taken though - I hope you'll understand if I tell you my dad's a retired manufacturing management consultant with an engineering background (and aerospace in both) and I see a bigger problem in the anecdote than an argument about how to count beans. Doesn't matter too much in my own life, but I'm very much from a "forcing the new-to-you task to the existing methodology sometimes gets people killed" walk of life[1].

That said, you have my apologies not least for forgetting to @ you out before letting rip.

[1] we're all big enough to know requirements don't necessarily scale straightforwardly, right?

@flippac This vulgar rant was uncalled for.
@flippac No one likes a whiny jerk. Try not to be one.
@flippac @onekind @mjd I still find it amazing people can insult each other over something like this
@tragivictoria You realise that waiting until everybody's slept just to express your righteous incredulity is mostly a way to get your own insults in, yes?
@flippac sorry to dissapoint, but you're not centre of this planet, i just saw your stupid post and replied.

@tragivictoria ah, so you're just another arsehole

there's a reason I don't make any pretence of it when I choose to be: want to guess what you can do with your own stupid smuggery?

@flippac calling other people asshole after insulting other people for the dumbest reason is certainly a choice
@flippac @tragivictoria oh my god the reply guy just learned that europe exists

@lianna my sleep's pretty wonky, so just in case: myself I'm in that place where we watched a 2% lead on an "advisory" referendum turn into a total shitshow rather than, say, the US east coast which isn't implausible

either way, time gap after things cool off and showing up in the OP's mentions when the OP's already made the point is a thing, no? i'm not cutting out @s for the sake of catching people 1:1

@mjd @joomy I was told that story in my intro to information systems paper at uni in 198-mumble.
@joomy Interestingly enough, in Russian computer slang "meter" is a megabyte. And software "weighs" (also in slang). So, there used to be a joke: "How to make a physics teacher crazy? Ask them to solve this problem: A piece of software weighs 2 meters. What time is needed to pass it through a 56 kbps channel?"
@menelion @joomy
In Polish we also use the term of weight towards bytes.
When I was a teen in modem era, the term ciężko przepchnąć ( hard to push ) was also commonly used to describe the relation between the weight of the upload and the channel speed when sending big files.
@frankboon @joomy Exactly! Also in Russian "speed" was often referred to as "width" (probably because of English "bandwidth"). so the joke sometimes was expanded to: "the software weighs two meters. How much time does it take to (down)load it if the channel is 56 kbps wide?"