db0Upwards mobility
Lembot_0006Ok, now fire him.
The fact they had to do this to earn a promotion is an institutional problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
I can do both, tbh. Though I do generally hate the game more than the player.
hate the game.
Game rules: You want a promotion? Make something cool, improve something while using approaches that will show that you deserve a higher position and, therefore, a bigger salary.
Player: (Lies and creates shit that is even worse than the initial situation.)
Lemmy: Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
You are contradicting yourself. If writing bullshit and making things worse gets you a better career position
You want a promotion? Make something cool, improve something while using approaches that will show that you deserve a higher position and, therefore, a bigger salary
Is not the rule of the game. Sell your story to your superiors is the rule of the game, that’s the real metric, the the thing that really matters.
You are contradicting yourself.
Do you want me to present you with a definition of “lie”? I believe you don’t understand the phrase “Lies and creates shit”.
They built something worse and we’re still promoted for it despite it being demonstrably worse. Where’s the lie? They described something complex and techy sounding, did it, and got the promotion anyway regardless of the actual results, proving the results didn’t matter.
So you want the manager to be cleverer than the engineer in engineering, so the manager would be able to detect a deliberate lie from the engineer?
You expect a manager to be more competent in engineering than an engineer? You expect the manager to always expect a lie from an engineer and recheck any data received from the engineer?
Well, we have very different ideas about how engineers and managers work.
Technical managers exist. Yes, it’s a manager’s responsibility to understand the field he’s working in. He doesn’t need to be a more skilled engineer, but he needs to understand what his/her people are saying.
but he needs to understand what his/her people are saying.
It isn’t enough to detect deliberate lies from an engineer like in this case.
There are ways to know. Did the manager ask for proof of concept? Asked for performance tests of the update and compared it to existing/baseline?
Did the manager ask
How can I know? Plus engineer could easily lie as he did it right from the start.
Of course don’t just ask the engineer. Any piece of code written by the engineer should ultimately be tested by a separate testing team before getting pushed to production. Ideally you have a performance and regression testing team that would help evaluate the changes being introduced and how it compares with the existing.
I’d expect a manager to be able to determine that testing data for the new process is showing it is worse than the previous system it replaced, and NOT promote that person, at the very least …
Some people will do anything to justify scumbag behavior. How about instead of trying to define what a player and a game are we just say “this guy is clearly a scumbag, he should be sued”.
Some people will do anything to justify scumbag behavior
the player can always choose not to play, though
It’s a big company. Someone’s going to play.
Yes, everyone should be evil at all times because otherwise someone else might out-evil you.
No. That putting the onus of change on individuals is a losing proposition. The incentives have to change or no number of good people will fix it. I hear the French have had very effective solutions in the past.
That’s just repeating the same thing: you think life being shitty is a reason to be evil, and someone not you has to make life less shitty before being evil is no longer acceptable. I disagree.
You seem to believe that I think it a justification for evil. I do not, people should not do such things and they are shitty people for doing them.
I’m saying that the idea of some good people doing the right thing fixing the problem is naive and doomed to failure and a real solution to the problem has to be bigger than the lazy “just no one be evil” proposition you seem into to champion.
Where on earth am I championing that as a solution?
My mistake. I believed you to be proposing a solution to the evil proposed. Not idly judging people with no meaningful contribution toward making things better.
Also not whats happening but that’s fine
I do find it funny, though, that you think judgement is not a meaningful contribution as if that’s not how the vast majority of change happens.
I’m curious how you’d characterize yourself then
It’s not a meaningful contribution. Judging someone in person, sure. Judging someone when you have a platform people pay attention to, yeah. Random comment on Lemmy? No one gives a shit. I fully recognize my own pointlessness in all this, especially this far down in the comments.
I said you shouldn’t be evil regardless of whether someone else is evil. It’s not an excuse. That’s not judgement, nor is it a solution, it’s me saying you have a choice and there is a clear right answer. Would you rather be Steve Bannon or not Steve Bannon?
What’s L5 and L6? What’s TC?
L5 and L6 is a label for career progression, like getting promoted from staff to senior, just with different words. TC is total compensation.
Yeah, typically per year. And usually it’s called Total Compensation because some of it is in salary, some in stock, some in stock options, sometimes even some kinds of perks, etc.
So all of that gets balled up into Total Compensation, which is different than annual salary
$550,000 a year as a software developer. That’s insane money. You could buy a luxurious house in the city CASH after saving for two years with that salary, where I live. Including other expenses. They are making 3x my salary as a software developer.
Amazon throws money at people with niche skill sets.
They were paying engineers with experience with SELinux and CDS developers nearly 500k the past few years.
Insanity
Tbf selinux tends to be a hell of a black box. Anytime my shit doesn’t work and I can’t explain why, I default to blaming selinux and hit up IT. Seems like I’m right about half the time lol
SELinux is super simple, you just gotta understand how the system works.
Once you understand the syntax and flow of SELinux policy then writing it is easy. Writing GOOD policy on the other hand …. Lmao.
Typically most IT departments “fix” it with setenforce 0 which is the equivalent of removing the seatbelt cuz you can’t figure out how to latch it.
Android has one of the most “robust” applications of it but it doesn’t serve the purpose a good policy does, it does add a substantial layer of defense. Apple contracted my company to come out and teach them how to SELinux a few years back. Ultimately they tend to just pay “us” to do it instead lmao.
I think as a developer I just have no idea what policies are applied, so it’s just “somethings fucky here” all the time. Maybe an organizational issue :)
X is super simple, you just gotta understand X works.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I do believe that’s the point. 😆 That understanding it is the hard part.
I love these people who are like “no no, X is easy, because I understand it.”
If course you think it’s easy — you understand it already…
What I am saying is that it looks significantly more daunting then it truly is, once you understand the basic concept of it (which I’m positing is actually fairly simple) the rest follows easily.
You’re talking implementation. I’m talking practice.
Yes, selinux is open source, I can look up the documentation, etc.
But since I’m not IT it isn’t my job to manage selinux - from my perspective it’s just something that rears it’s head when there’s a policy I didn’t know about that interferes with me running my stuff.
Big tech pays large amounts of money. This is why people choose to work there.
The “where I live” part is key. Because very likely this person is in SF, where they cannot buy a luxurious house cash with that money, and where cost of living eats surprisingly far into that stupid high number.
But notably, this is why all the normal people who don’t make a half million dollars a year can’t live in SF! 😅
Career levels at Amazon
Total Compensation
Total Compensation
At Amazon you have the following levels
L4 - Junior. A new grad. Expected to be promoted within 2 years or let go
L5 - Mid engineer. Very wide band. Encapsulates anything between a level 2 engineer and a team lead at other companies. Can be expected to lead individual teams at times. Is considered a “terminal” position (there’s no expectation of a promotion past here)
L6 - Senior. Has the scope of what a Staff engineer would at other companies where you’re not only concerned with your team but others in the department. I think like 10% of engineers ever hit L6
L7 - Principal Engineer. You have like 1-2 of these per department. These are more like architects at other companies. About 1-2% of engineers ever hit this band.
L8 and beyond are for fancy hires and shit. Very few if anyone ever works their way up to those bands.
So, where are L1-L3?
Are L3 student programmers?
L2 people who never coded anything in their life?
L1 are people who can’t read? Like babies?
Non-engineering positions
Non-engineering roles I think.
IIRC levels correspond to all employees across the company.
Yeah it’s weird and I don’t get it either.
Not really, that’s just how it works at mega tech corporations. You should try working for a startup.
And this is why you rarely find decent people with good income in todays economy.
A_norny_mousseSounds like whoever decides these things knows nothing about IT.
Technical people don’t understand the business, you see.
You fuck over poor people for money, it’s not complicated