Pope Bob the UnsaneFailure by King Missile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcO10Fim0C8
This song was and is one of the most influential songs of my life...
Enjoy..
YouTube
Failure is all there is for you...
Quite honestly... I am probably alive because of this song...
Suicide by Bobby Gaylor
Suicide
Roknrol like the slur@roknrol helped me see the positive... for sure... :D
@bobdobberson Pulled me back from many ledges.
@roknrol I feel that, and I am glad that it did.
@bobdobberson Ask me when I'm out of mood levelers...should happen just in time for Xmas.
@roknrol that sucks... We need to get away from those meds... They help... But... They form dependencies...
@bobdobberson Only taking them to help quit smoking. Eight days so far.
Kind of nervous about being off of them, but i can't afford that crutch so i'll just have to figure it out.
And I still really want to smoke.
@roknrol I know this isn't the nicest thing I could do... But... Maybe just smoke? Maybe have a few. Maybe have one? Maybe you don't need to abstain completely... Just reduce and moderate...
@bobdobberson The heart disease is pretty advanced. If i keep smoking i doubt I'll see 60.
The want is still strong though.
@roknrol the want will always be there. To some degree... Probably... I mean, maybe some people can get over it ... Maybe you can too... But... I haven't been able to.
@roknrol we can't abstain from everything we need or ought to moderate... Which is why I am a big proponent of moderation...
@bobdobberson It creeps, though, and that's the problem that I have.
A cigarette in the morning necesitates one in the evening. Oh, I'm out drinking with friends, one more won't hurt. Now some asshole thinks I'm looking at his girlfriend. Oh, I hope I get that job. Shit I hope that cop ignores me. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseum.
@roknrol are 2 cigarettes a day really /that/ bad for you?
@bobdobberson My cardiologist thinks so. He'll make more money if I keep smoking, so maybe?
@roknrol I mean... He makes more money the more scared you are of your heart...
@bobdobberson how so? I see him once every couple of years unless my heart gets worse, then he could justify more surgery. That's where the money is, from what I can tell.
@roknrol fair enough... Do you need to see him every few years?
@bobdobberson Probably not, as long as my health doesn't decline. Every few years for basic follow up stuff isn't so bad.
I don't tend to follow the recommendations and they can't offer a compelling reason for me to do so.
Basically, the damage that's been done is done and can't be fixed. I can theoretically stop it getting worse though. Since i noticed the decline for a better part of a decade before my heart attack, I don't really want that. I already struggle with super basic shit and I'm only 50.
I had my whole health history typed up but you probably don't want or need that. Basically if I keep smoking I'll be destined for a stroke. The next heart attack is likely to burst something and that's permanent.
@roknrol what damage? What caused the damage? Pack a day?
@bobdobberson Diet, genetics, smoking, city living. Genetics are apparently a big part. Smoking for 30 years did me no favors.
I have 99% blockage systemically. Ap.arently all of my internal organs are provided blood via periphery veins.
Moderation probably can work, but i am certainly addicted. That's the problem. None is not enough and one is too many sort of thing.
@roknrol addiction is everywhere, and moderation is definitely key... If you can abstain and want to abstain... No problem...
But we need to learn moderation... I need to learn... It's not easy...
@roknrol sorry if I'm not helpful... I don't know what is right for your health situation, and I sure as fuck don't know what's right about my own...
I just know I'm gonna die some day, and may already have stage 56 cancer, cos I don't have insurance or a GP or health care I can rely on...
Life is fun...
@roknrol I have a weird view of current medicine... I think some is good, and a lot is there to milk us for money, and it is hard to tell which from which...
@bobdobberson I understand, and I don't necessarily disagree with you.
The benefit of having a family with medical practitioners in it is that you pick up bits and pieces...you learn a little bit about how some studies are done. You can see the charts and graphs that show improvement (or lack thereof).
For example, I'm on blood pressure meds, and those I can actually FEEL working. I'm on stuff to lower my cholesterol, and it does seem to help that just purely by numbers. Baby aspirin because it's recommended and seems to show a long-term benefit to heart disease sufferers...fish oil because *everyone* tells me that it will help and it's not expensive. I take that basically to keep them off of my back. If I didn't have insurance, I'd be taking none of them.
Then there's the mental shit.
And it's probably a history of living in an ablest society or something, but considering how much we don't actually know about how brains work, I think mucking around with drugs is a bad idea. I'm literally on the mood levelers to keep me from killing myself while I quit smoking. I only have about 2 weeks left on that, and I will not be taking them again, regardless of the repercussions.
I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I feel like anything that I can name (about my brain, thoughts, etc) can be trained to be better behaved, if only I had the name. Considering the chronic depression I might have to rethink that, but for now, I want to keep my brain as it is (despite its flaws). If I wanted to be another person I would have been born into different circumstances.
@roknrol I watched as my friends Dad was killed by mis-presciption of medications... He had so many doctors, prescribing different meds... None of the doctors talked to each other or were aware of the other drugs he was on...
Maybe he had no chance... But ... Given all the side effects of the numerous drugs he was on... I have to wonder...
I know how much we have learned over time, and I know how much we know about the human body, but modern medicine, with its monetary drive, scares the fucking shit out of me.
@bobdobberson I have found it absolutely necessary for me to learn everything that I can about my own health. I have no idea how people without a medical background (remember, my background is basically just helping my wife through nursing school and spending time around doctors, so not much) manage...none at all.
Doctors are hit and miss, and I find that GP's tend to be more miss than hit. Specialists seem to be pretty good for the most part, although you're right, they don't talk to each other. Capitalism ruins everything.
If you don't have insurance though...its' hard to find anyone to help at all, much less someone that actually cares about the outcome. If you're a woman or minority you're also screwed since doctors treat both categories like a whiny five year old, which is absolute bullshit.
You've absolutely got to fight for your own health, because nobody else is going to do it for you (generic 'you', could be "we" and "us")
@roknrol yeah... My game-plan at this point is to limp along until medical science matures a bit, and I don't go in and immediately get misdiagnosed with something that will shorten my life.
@roknrol and by medical science, I mean society at large. We have a lot of maturing to do, and too many of us think we are mature.
@roknrol let me ask an annoying question... What "is" chronic depression?
Is that something that can or should be fixed?
@roknrol is that something that can be fixed -- IN US -- or might it have something to do with the incredibly unhealthy society we exist within?
@bobdobberson As I've had it explained to me, there are basically two types of depression (with varying flavors, of course).
There's situational depression - my dog or a family member has died, getting a divorce, losing a job, that sort of thing. This seems to be absolutely *normal* and what most people experience a handful of times in their lives.
Chronic depression is the other kind...it's always hovering in the background, even if you're having "fun". I can objectively enjoy myself, but there seems to be a pendulum swing that will happen if I'm not careful and I will sink fast. The mood levelers that I'm on *do* help with that. I can feel when I would normally be spiraling...I just don't quite reach that point unless the drugs have worn off.
Now, personally, I wouldn't consider that to be a "cure". I would consider drugs like that to be a stopgap while I sort out my own shit (if possible). I *hate* taking stuff like that long-term because I don't like having muted feelings about everything. It fixes some of the symptoms, but the disease is still present.
There are some things that one can do to help, without medications though. For me, losing my job was actually a blessing because while I've been chasing down my health issues, my mental health issues have been easier to monitor as well. I'm noticing patterns of behavior now that I was just never able to notice while I was overwhelmed with work and life and all. Avoiding triggers can help...for example, I have to be careful about how many "events" I agree to do with other people. Social interaction burns me out something fierce and I notice that if I do too much of it, once I DO get a break, my mental health absolutely collapses.
I believe that society is a big part of it, I believe that we are a big part of it. My "future" is in trying to resolve that exact conflict.
I *need* to work for a living. I *need* to interact with people because that's what living in society means (right or wrong, that's the way that it is). I do not *need* to work myself to death. I do not *need* to cater to a family that ultimately doesn't care. I don't *need* to force myself into social situations just to not hurt someone's feelings. I'm spending about half of my year in a very tiny town that is super slow pace. That's about all I can cope with anymore and it has helped me *immensely*. It is really hard to remember that the rest of the world exists when you're in the thick of capitalism, but the rest of the world exists, nonetheless.
@roknrol weird question -- do you feel love is something that needs to be earned?
@bobdobberson I'm not sure that I can answer that.
I'm not certain that I've ever felt love, and I'm pretty sure that other than my mom I've never received it.
@roknrol I ask because for me, the breaking point... When everything changed in my world... Was when I learned that love is something that can be freely given and something I can freely give myself. I had been taught otherwise. I had to break to learn that.
@bobdobberson I've heard that as well.
That's part of why I'm not sure that I'm capable of it. I can *care* about other people (or dogs, mostly dogs), and sometimes quite deeply, but it never feels the way that people *say* that love feels.
They insist that they aren't exaggerating, but it sure seems that way to me. Although I also recognize that "if everyone else feels one way, perhaps the problem is me?"
I do not make many lasting attachments...I suppose that could be related. I'm sure there's some trauma in my past that has lead to it, but I'll be damned if I can pinpoint an event at all.
People are temporary. We know that when we're young and our friends move away from school or when a pet or someone related to us dies. I guess I've learned to treat people that way. Not "take advantage of them" temporary, but "make as little impact as possible" temporary.
@roknrol how does love feel? What is love? What does it look like, to you? What does it mean to love someone, platonicly? I think ... unfortunately ... MANY people do not know what 'love' ... unconditional love ... is.
So what others say love is, might not be what love is.
To me, love is simply wanting to see someone succeed and do the best they can, and to help them, where and when I can.
I don't see it as anything more complicated than that.
I can relate to the lasting attachments. I have moved so many times and dealt with the "death" of friends at an early age. I also feel it is difficult to truly connect with others. In part because others do not know how to connect with others.
It's something we've been conditioned against.
Asking for help makes us weak, so we do not ask for help. Asking for help is the surest way to forge friendships...
@bobdobberson This guy gets it. He's a clinical psychologist who has struggled with chronic depression.
He has a couple of videos where he advertises...feel free to give those a miss. His shorts are pretty good too. Scroll through his feed until something grabs your attention...he talks about a variety of different mental health issues.
Dr. Scott Eilers
The mental health field has done a terrible job of providing practical information to people. This frustrates me immensely. There absolutely are scientific, practical mental health tools that can and do change lives, and so few people are teaching them. This channel is for us: those whose needs run deeper; those of us living on the Isle of Misfits Toys. My goal for this channel is to create the highest quality information about depression and anxiety for the people who need it most; those who are living with it every day. My name is Dr. Scott. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist, podcast host, and the author of the book "For When Everything Is Burning." I specialize in treating moderate to severe mood and anxiety disorders because I've lived them for decades. Disclaimer: This content is not intended to be a replacement for receiving treatment. It is purely educational in nature. My relationship with you is that of presenter and audience, not therapist and client. But I do care.
@roknrol I've found, with time, and energy to spare for it, that my depression has sources I can control.
I may be one of the lucky few. I still feel despair, but not like I had in the past...
Our society has been lead astray in terrible ways, and I see no actual hope for a bloodless future.
That is perhaps some of the anxiety those in control want me to feel, as it leaves me paralyzed...
But that's a whole different ball of wax...
@bobdobberson I hear you, and I agree. I don't see us getting away from fascism without blood, and sticking with it will *clearly* bring blood.
When my health started having issues I got serious about focusing on "me". Not my wife. Not her family. But me. I thought it was about time, you know?
There were a couple of things that changed as a direct result of that decision.
1) my health improved.
2) my wife complained that my reduced capacity meant that I didn't love her anymore or something. This is what has led to our divorce, because I will bust my ass for someone else but I'm not fucking dying for the sake of someone that refuses clean up after themselves. Fuck that. (there was a lot more - that's just one of many reasons)
I know it's stupid to hear a straight white middle aged guy say this, but taking control of my own future made me feel *empowered* for the first time in my life.
@roknrol that's the first step I suppose. Figuring out what our goals are is next.
@bobdobberson I started off by...doing what I was "supposed" to do. Get an education. Get a job. Serve my country. (not in that order)
Then, marriage....and that's kind of when I really started to feel like my life was no longer mine to live.
Now? It's *only* mine to live, and with a lifetime of experience behind me I suppose it has more meaning now.
@bobdobberson Sorry I dropped off - had to help install a roof.
The only reason I'm still married is for the tenuous relationship with healthcare insurance. I get it.
And yes, we all will die someday.
But where my health is at right now, I had to make an active decision. Do I want to live, or do I want to die?
Depending on the day and phase of the moon and whether Mars is in retrograde, either answer may seem just as desirable.
But I don't think sabotaging the guy that wants to live is necessarily the right decision either. What if that guy meets someone? Gets a good job that he enjoys? Or is finally able to find peace (something I'm actively seeking)? Shooting that guy in the foot with ever compounding health issues doesn't seem the way, for me.
That said, you are 100% absolutely correct. A life lived without enjoyment is a life unlived. But I do still enjoy myself...I just have to do healthier things to do it. I walk a lot, and I've been watching people's dogs while I'm in town. It's the little things (right now) that make life (almost) worth living. There's no reward for turning in my body in the original packaging.
The UP side is that I can breath easier, I can walk further without huffing and puffing, and I don't smell like stale smoke. I've stopped horking grey shit out of my lungs too...so it seems to be doing something.
I'm sorry that you're having to deal with cancer. Nobody should have to shoulder that burden. If it's any consolation, my wife does cancer research for a living and there's not a single person that she's worked with that isn't actively trying to find cures. It's just an ungodly beast of a problem to tackle. A positive attitude seems to be absolutely necessary if healing is your goal, but the cost and treatment can make that virtually impossible to obtain. I wish I had something that I could say that would help, but this paragraph is about it...and I"m sure you've heard it (and more) before.