Jeff Geerling

Sometimes when I venture off into the land of ease and x86, away from SBCs with like 5-15W TDPs, I realize how much faster computing can be.

Then I look at power draw and efficiency and realize, yes, there's always tradeoffs!

But it is nice just... having things work.

Nov 25 at 5:59amWeb
Show threadjlinNov 25
@geerlingguy I *wish* things just worked! But yah there's a lot of convenience in the regular x64/x84 world - especially printing. Even on Apple Silicon Macs printing can be nasty.
Show threadraspberryNov 25
@geerlingguy I've seen people saying that RISC V with Linux may be faster to implement and adopt than ARM, which would be great if it ends up being true. I know youve tested a few RISC boards. what do you think will happen first? a Decent Just Works ARM standard or RISC V?
Show threadUtopiah (Fabien Benetou)Nov 25
@theraspb @geerlingguy may I interest you in a banana?🍌 https://mastodon.pirateparty.be/@utopiah/115332958192905605 (setup a headless RISC V based server in 15min)
Utopiah (Fabien Benetou) (@[email protected])

Attached: 4 images Nerd tiny success of the day : - from SBC in in drawer to server in ~15min While watching "RISC-V was supposed to change everything—How's it going?" by Jeff Geerling I thought "Wait a minute I have a RISC-V SBC somewhere" then shortly after : - 110Gb file server on my LAN🤩 Steps as pictures

Mastodon - PiratesBE
Show threadBedastGPTNov 25

@geerlingguy Every now and then I'll dig through my dockerized services to see what can just lift over to arm. It used to be pretty dire, but now it's just a small handful (though important) services that still aren't there.

I've definitely seen a pretty intentional shift to adopt arm more. I think platforms like AWS are kind of a big driver in this, with Graviton and similar becoming a more cost effective option for hosting.

Show threadunattributed 𓂃✍︎Nov 25

@geerlingguy This is where my interest in Mini PC's came into things. I started playing with SBC's because of the efficiency of them given my needs. However, having a restricted range of applications that work / play nicely on SBC's pushed me back to the PC realm.

However, with many Minis needing less than 50 watts to operate effectively, and not having too many of the restrictions on application choice, that seems to be a sweet-spot.

Someone else mentioned RISC V: when I first heard about it, I thought it would be 5-10 years before it would be a decent option. Well, we're now around 3-4 years in, and I think the progress is coming along nicely. We're likely to see more adoption in the datacenter and embedded systems first, but eventually the desktop platforms will catch up.

Let's hope companies like Framework keep making RISC V system boards available for their laptops. I think that is where the first real step towards desktop RISC V is going to happen.

Show threadRodrigo DiasNov 25
@geerlingguy Totally. My SBC home lab is efficient but chokes on compiles. x86 desktop handles the real work.
Show threadCyrille CailacNov 25
@geerlingguy Is it really true outside of Apple ? The RPi 5 uses an ancient node, I'd be curious how it compares in efficiency to say, the steam deck I have unused in my drawer, for running homelab type of services.
Show threadWossen Wyatt 🇬🇾🐧💿💾Nov 25

@geerlingguy It would be nice if Ampere made an affordable 8- or 16-core part for desktops that was readily available from multiple OEMs with decently priced desktop systems with sensible mainstream discrete GPUs and active cooling.

Then you could have the best of both worlds. Somehow I think a system like that would still beat x86 at efficiency and yet perform worlds beyond your SBCs.

Show threadJason Tubnor 🇦🇺Nov 25
@geerlingguy I have Lenovo ThinkCentre m90q etc running #FreeBSD at 20W idle and 34W all cores maxed out. Yes, that is two SBCs but runs all over them in total performance. And as you said, no fancy distros or recompile needed, just works™️
Show threadAdmiral SnackbärNov 25

@Tubsta @geerlingguy

My Futro 920 and Elitedesk mini both draw about 5W idle. Yes, an RPi might draw a bit less, but even here in expensive power Germany that makes hardly a difference, if an RPi costs 150€ all in all.

Show threadAlastair TempleNov 25
@geerlingguy don't worry corporate IT bloat can make x86 just as slow if you ever decide you want to experience an office job.
Show threadAndreas Nov 25

@geerlingguy i appreciate your work. Energy is something we have to try and conserve.

Furthermore, electricity is bloody expensive in Denmark.

Show threadianisandrei2013Nov 25
@geerlingguy Mine old E7200 core 2 duo... it had 65w
Show threadSimon HewisonNov 25
@geerlingguy the most important thing about efficiency in programming isn't really the CPU architecture, but writing the algorithms sensibly in the first place to avoid the need for brute force CPU/GPU grunt. So much modern software is written forgetting the lessons learned in the old 8 bit and 16 bit days. Sure, taking advantage of modern pipelining, GPU, and multi-threading helps too.
Simple decisions like using vectors for icons rather than full colour bitmaps needs less IO and storage.
Show threadGasper ZejnNov 25
@geerlingguy I wonder what would happen if someone stuck a big heatsink on a new arm phone ... then I figured there are arm notebooks. Linux support seems spotty, though. 🤔
Show threadmausmaloneNov 25

@geerlingguy This is one reason why I abandoned my desktop PC and went full-time laptop. It not only consumes less power overall but I can put it to sleep when not in use even for very short times. It's fast enough that I don't really notice a difference for most tasks.

The desktop got recycled into a Steam box and it only gets powered on once in a while.

Show threadmrspNov 25
@geerlingguy Can confirm.
Show threadRodrigo PrestesNov 25
@geerlingguy Yeah, I was looking to upgrade my homelab Pi 4 to a 5 since it was struggling to run 15 or so Docker containers.
But I went with a Ryzen Mini PC instead and now I'm running even more containers (Ollama included).
Also some crazy stuff I never imagine doing like iGPU passthrough to a Bazzite VM for local cloud gaming, it's pretty cool for slow paced games like puzzle and RPGs. And I can Moonlight from the old Pi 4 that now is hooked up to the TV.
Show threadRyan WalmsleyNov 25

@geerlingguy The thing I find is, with some of the original / older SBCs whilst limited in performance. They were also lower TDPs.

But more and more of the newer SBCs are higher power, still less than a full computer for sure but not that ultra low power niceness either.