AnthonyNov 22
I'm glad to add Firefox to the list of apps I have to constantly check to make sure they haven't turned back on all the anti-features I disabled.

#firefox #mozilla #AI #GenAI #GenerativeAI #SmartIsSurveillance #tech #dev #web
Show threadAnthony
Based on the answers to this StackOverflow question and this blog post, here are the 16 (!!!) AI-related settings in new versions of Firefox that you'll want to disable/set to false, and that might be turned back on with each update:

- browser.aiwindow.enabled
- browser.ml.chat.enabled
- browser.ml.chat.menu
- browser.ml.chat.page.footerBadge
- browser.ml.chat.page.menuBadge
- browser.ml.chat.page
- browser.ml.chat.shortcuts
- browser.ml.chat.sidebar
- browser.ml.enable
- browser.ml.linkPreview.enabled
- browser.ml.pageAssist.enabled
- browser.ml.smartAssist.enabled
- browser.tabs.groups.smart.enabled
- browser.tabs.groups.smart.userEnabled
- extensions.ml.enabled
- sidebar.notification.badge.aichat 

Enter "about:config" in the browser bar and then search for each of these and disable them, turn them off, or set them to false as appropriate.

Depending on which version of Firefox you have you may not have all these configuration options.

Check your smartphone browsers too!

#firefox #mozilla #AI #GenAI #GenerativeAI #SmartIsSurveillance #tech #dev #web #NoAI #AICruft #antifeatures
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Show threadAnthonyDec 18
I've now had at least four people, two of whom self-identified as Mozilla employees, claim that the above list of AI features--which were suddenly and rapidly added over the last few releases of Firefox, and were "on" (true) by default--could easily be turned off by flipping one master kill switch. This is not true, but folks keep claiming it or suggesting it anyway.

Here's a post from an official Firefox Mastodon account suggesting such a master kill switch does not exist yet, but will be added in a future release:

https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115740500373677782

That's not as bad as it could be. It's bad they're stuffing AI into a perfectly good web browser for no apparent reason other than vibes or desperation. It's very bad if it's on by default; their dissembling post about it aside, opt-in has a reasonably clear meaning here: if there's a kill switch, then that kill switch should be off by default. But at least there will be a kill switch.

In any case, please stop responding to my post saying there's a master kill switch for Firefox's AI slop features. From the horse's mouth, and from user experience, there is not yet.

Furthermore, when there is a master kill switch, we don't know whether flipping it will maintain previous state of all the features it controls. In other words it's possible they'll have the master kill switch turn on all AI features when the switch is flipped to "on" or "true", rather than leaving them in whatever state you'd set them to previously. Perhaps you decide to turn the kill switch on because there are a handful of features you're comfortable with and you want to try them; will doing so mean that now all the AI features are on? We won't know till it's released and people try this. So, in the meantime, it's still good practice to keep an eye on all these configuration options if you want the AI off.

#AI #GenAI #GenerativeAI #LLMs #web #tech #dev #Firefox #Mozilla #AISlop #NoAI #NoLLMs #NoAIBrowsers
Show threadGilberto RuizNov 22
@abucci You can use the Betterfox template to deactivate everything in one go 👌 https://github.com/yokoffing/BetterFox
GitHub - yokoffing/Betterfox: Firefox user.js for optimal privacy and security. Your favorite browser, but better.

Firefox user.js for optimal privacy and security. Your favorite browser, but better. - yokoffing/Betterfox

GitHub
Show threadAnthonyNov 22
@[email protected] I'll check it out, thanks!
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] as the blog post says, though - confirmed by a Mozilla engineer's comment I saw once - if you want no LLM features at all you only need browser.ml.enable! This gives the impression you need to disable all of these and be on the lookout for more, which is misleading.
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] also, what gave you the impression they might be turned back on automatically? That's not how Firefox config is supposed to work.
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] I've lost the link to the post that stated this occurred to them, but I've seen the possibility mentioned. I don't believe you are correct that the config is not supposed to work this way; whether the configs are modified after a Firefox upgrade is at Mozilla's discretion, and if new configuration settings are added they'll choose a default. For their ML and AI features their chosen default has been "true", meaning these are opt-out features. I consider software a bad actor when it opts me into a clearly-problematic new feature without even notifying me that it's done so. Consent matters etc.
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] ye-es, it technically can be. I just wouldn't expect them to do that, and have never seen them do that; what would be the benefit to them? But yes.
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] What would be the benefit to them, a large foundation half-funded by Google, to press AI features into their products against the will of many of their users, the way so many other large tech and tech-adjacent organizations have been doing for several years? I'll leave that one as an exercise for the reader.
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] I don't know. The benefit to Google is they collect data that way; they are known to do that. Their (all-online) offerings may become subscription services in the future, once they've already got everyone hooked. But Mozilla's offerings (excluding the sidebar integration, which requires clicking a button anyway) run on-device. Quite different!
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] Default opt-in is a dark pattern, and signals an untrustworthy organization in my personal opinion. Something's gone off the rails when software starts including known-controversial features as default opt-in. That's my starting point for all this.

Incorporating Perplexity AI search, as Firefox is also doing, is not on-device. Granted that's different from the features affected by these config options. But who's to say whether future ML and AI features they add will continue to be on device. I for one will be watching them very closely, and I see now downside to doing so.

Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] ah, I forgot about Perplexity. Concerning indeed.
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] Or, what might lead a large complex piece of software, developed over a long period of time by a large number of engineers, to have diverging namespaces for configuration options that could in theory be merged? I'll leave that one as an exercise for the reader also.
Show threadDrikanisNov 24

@NotThatDeep @abucci Anecdotally, I've had it flip back on between updates. I've also had pop-ups advertising new AI features in Firefox even with the "global" ML option set to off.

If it's supposed to be behind a single flag that never turns itself back on, it at the very least seems unreliable.

And even if the flags did work as intended, that doesn't change the fact that this should be disabled by default, and strictly opt-in.

Show threadAmyJan 11
@drikanis @[email protected] I forgot to reply to this sorryy

I hope they fix it if that's the case! And yeah it's not the best
Show threadAnthonyJan 11
@[email protected]
also, what gave you the impression they might be turned back on automatically? That's not how Firefox config is supposed to work.
Because they do turn back on automatically after updates. You can observe this yourself. It stinks, and I think Mozilla's leadership is poor on this, but that's how it is.
Show threadAmyJan 12
@[email protected] I have not observed this myself, but fair enough. Sorry if I was rude, I didn't mean to be!
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] just one example of a Mozilla employee stating as much: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1obbrvz/comment/nki10g9/
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] I'm inclined not to trust the Reddit post of an employee of the organization doing the not-nice thing to an otherwise-nice browser, thanks, especially when it contradicts the reported experience of users of the otherwise-nice browser. It causes near-0 harm to toggle all of those configuration settings and spare oneself the risk.
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] I for one trust the employees the most! What would be the motivation of doing otherwise? I've seen the same stated multiple times. It's your choice whether to think the same, but I would add a note that a single flag is supposed to do all the work now and in the future, reducing anxiety.
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] What would be the motivation for an employee of a large organization to enthusiastically support the mission of the organization they've chosen to work for, and that provides them their livelihood, to the point that they might overlook certain facts that are of importance to people less enthusiastic about their organization's recent behavior? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Your vigorous assertions that a single flag should turn off all the ML/AI features--including the ones in different namespaces--are unconvincing. Since it is a negligible amount of additional work for me to toggle all of them off/false/what have you, I will continue to do so.
Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] fair point.

Vigorous? I've seen more energy in a stakeholder's board meeting.

Yes, that's fine! Still, it's not negligible for all people - it can be a daunting task. The need to use a menu they may have never seen before notwithstanding, being faced with 16 strings to hunt down and toggle may be a daunting task.

Thank you for challenging my point of view, anyway. I should have been less intrusive and rude :)
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] Please don't refer to my post as misleading without first asking where I'm coming from. That's needlessly accusatory, and helps no one.

browser.ml.enable presumably does not clobber all the LLM/AI features. There are "smartAssist", "aiWindow" and "aichat" features that may or may not be affected by that setting, since they are in different namespaces. Furthermore, if you'd read the StackOverflow page and the comments, you'd have seen that some of these features are newly-added in the latest release of Firefox. Hence the admonition to be on the lookout for new ones.


Show threadAmyNov 23
@[email protected] I should have perhaps qualified with "to the best of my knowledge", sorry. I didn't mean it was misleading intentionally at all. I'm just worried this will give people needless anxiety, scouring about:config every Firefox update.

I believe it does though - although yes, technically we cannot be 100% sure.
Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] I do not, and I do not see how it is in any way misleading to say so.
Show threadAmyNov 23

@[email protected] it suggests that you need to turn them all off, that's all.

Based on … and this blog postThe blog post says you can turn them all off with browser.ml.enable.

Show threadAnthonyNov 23
@[email protected] Thanks for your feedback. I am muting this thread now because it's reached the absurdum part of the ad absurdum cycle. Have a good one.
Show threadChris SiebenmannNov 24

@NotThatDeep @abucci I have personal experience that setting browser.ml.enable to false does not stop (all) new ML features from appearing, such as browser.ml.linkPreview.enabled (which definitely was active, its appearance in the context menu was how I discovered it).

If it is the intention of Firefox developers that this work, then they have some debugging and bug fixing to do.

Show threadAmyJan 11
@cks @[email protected] hmm that's annoying…
Show threadAnthonyJan 11
@[email protected] @[email protected] That is correct. And, if you'd actually read the whole thread, you'd see there are configuration options outside of the browser.ml tree that wouldn't--and shouldn't, because of their names--be affected by the setting browser.ml.enable. And and, none of this guarantees that the next version of Firefox won't have 20 more LLM features enabled by default.

My impression, after following this saga for a bit, is that Mozilla really really wants LLM features in Firefox and turned on for as many users as possible, irrespective of what their userbase expresses. I think the discussions around browser.ml.enable are about spreading FUD and distracting away from the real issue, which is that the Firefox project is going a direction directly counter to what the majority of Firefox users state that they want (and don't want).
Show threadAnthonyJan 11
@[email protected] This is false. Please read the whole thread. That single option does not turn off all LLM features at once.
Show threadAmyJan 12
@[email protected] Hey, no need to be unfriendly! What thread am I supposed to read the whole of, anyway? I'm unaware of any LLM features that aren't disabled by that, but I have no problem at all with being corrected, as I thought I was quite clear about :)
Show threadchipiguay - Pablo 😴Nov 23

@abucci worth to mention how to toggle these from android Firefox: https://android.stackexchange.com/a/257769

Tl;Dr: go to chrome://geckoview/content/config.xhtml

How do I open about:config in Firefox on Android?

A lot of settings on Firefox for Android need about:config, but I cannot open it by typing in the address bar. Here are the screenshots. Waiting 15 seconds after I typed about:config in the address...

Android Enthusiasts Stack Exchange
Show threadBen OvermyerNov 23
@abucci eh, nah. I'm just trying out different browsers until I find an alternative I like. I'm done with Firefox.
Show threadChris SiebenmannNov 24

@abucci It's possible to use Firefox's 'enterprise' policy system to hard-set known preferences in a way that sticks. I've resorted to doing it for my setup, with increasingly gritted teeth. Some documentation is at https://mozilla.github.io/policy-templates/

I learned about it from https://electric.marf.space/@trysdyn/statuses/01JN7H07704Z9ZJY197A9AM33K

policy-templates

Policy Templates for Firefox

policy-templates
Show threadMarcos DioneNov 24
@cks @abucci anything online we can steal from^W^W riff of?
Show threadAnthonyNov 24
@[email protected] @[email protected] That link has a post where the person shares their JSON policy file. That might be a good place to start?
Show threadAnthonyNov 24
@[email protected] This is great, thank you. A few people have suggested Betterfox and Arkenfox, which if I'm understanding correctly use a custom user.js to harden the browser. Arkenfox has a user-override.js file where you put the settings you want to stick between updates; I imagine Betterfox has something similar but I haven't looked that much into it yet. You could put these AI settings in there. I hesitate to publicly suggest such things till I've had a chance to check them out so I haven't. It's good to see there are options, though.
Show threadEllie 🏴🏳️‍⚧️Dec 18

@abucci these solutions all have the problem that mozilla likes to replace those about config settings with settings that are the exact same but are named differently. So either the project you're using, like arkenfox, not only agrees with your choices and uses them as default, but also reliably provides updates to reflect Mozilla's changes, or you'll have to keep track of that and there is no warning whatsoever from Firefox when one of the settings you applied suddenly no longer exists after an update, you'll probably only notice it when Firefox misbehaves.

For example, arkenfox by default deletes all history and closes all tabs when you quit Firefox, so in my override file I changed that back to the Firefox default behaviour, only for mozilla to change the names of those settings and then when I updated arkenfox, it applied its defaults to those new settings and suddenly, the next time I reopened my Firefox, everything was gone. That was real fun. Luckily I had a backup.

Show threadAnthonyDec 18
@[email protected] Eesh, thanks for this info. This possibility is one of the reasons I haven't tried either of those projects.
Show threadUtopiah (Fabien Benetou)Nov 24

@abucci I didn't verify but I imagine they are hierarchical, e.g. disabled browser.ml.enable also disables everything under browser.ml.

What annoys me though is :
- why is it enabled by default?
- (arguably even worst) why preferences (the normal ones, with buttons, that most people can use) show nothing related?

Antifeatures indeed.

Show threadAnthonyNov 24
@[email protected] That's the thing. It seems like that top-level option ought to disable everything, and that's what folks keep saying. However, there are new "aichat" and "aiwindow" and "smartAssist" configuration options that are also AI. Are those affected by this browser.ml.enable boolean? Maybe not--why else would they be in different namespaces? Looking forward, what stops Mozilla from adding new branches of this stuff (browser.llm.enable, browser.perplexity.ai.enable, ....) toggled on by default? Seemingly nothing stops them.

Mozilla lost my trust with behavior like this, so now I will check regularly.
Show thread• ŁączeNov 25

@abucci

Just use Chromium, set up DNS and it is more secure, clean.

Firefox is over.

Show threadMateuszNov 25
@Lacze AFAIK Chromium phased out Manifest V2, so it a no-go for most powerusers
Show thread• ŁączeNov 25
@mtsz
„powerusers" ⚡😹
Show threadJulien W.Nov 25
@abucci my understanding is that the global switch is enough to disable it, and we treat that as a bug if it doesn't. Also I've been told there will be a switch in the preferences eventually.
Show threadAnthonyNov 25
@[email protected] If you read the comments on my post you'll see several other people have said the same thing, and that I responded with skepticism (which I explained).
Show threadJulien W.Nov 25
@abucci you can be skeptical, but what I said is that if this doesn't work it's handled as a bug and you can file it and it will be fixed.
Show threadAnthonyNov 25
@[email protected] You didn't read the comments.
Show threadJulien W.Nov 25
@abucci I did, in addition I work at mozilla and I personally know the folks working on AI functionalities.
Show threadAnthonyNov 26
Does setting browser.ml.enable to false override browser.ml.linkPreview.enabled, browser.ml.pageAssist.enabled and browser.ml.smartAssist.enabled? Does it set them to false? If so this behavior is not obvious, and the naming of these options in this way is ripe for confusion and misinterpretation. If these settings are left alone, then they have be checked separately.

Does setting browser.ml.enable to false also set extensions.ml.enabled to false or override? If so, why? That is unexpected and confusing behavior. If not, then these settings have to be checked and changed separately.

Does setting browser.ml.enable to false also set browser.tabs.groups.smart.enabled and browser.tabs.groups.smart.userEnabled to false, or overide them? If so, why the heck? This is unexpected and confusing behavior. If not, then these have to be checked and changed separately.

Does setting browser.ml.enable to false set browser.ml.chat.sidebar to false, or override it? If so, why? If not, this is another setting that has to be checked and changed separately.

What about browser.ml.chat.shortcuts and browser.ml.chat.shortcuts.custom?

Does setting browser.ml.enable to false also set browser.aiwindow.enabled to false, or override it? If so, what the hell? If not, this is another setting that has to be checked and changed separately.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but Firefox used to have maybe 5 settings like this. Now it has 16. How many more are going to be added? 32 more? 100 more? Will they all be controlled, ultimately, by browser.ml.enable, regardless of how they're named? If not, how am I to know when I need to scour through these settings again to see if any new ones have popped up? This feels user hostile if you're a user who does not want AI cruft in your web browser.

How many bug reports do you reckon I should file about the above?
Show threadJulien W.Nov 26

@abucci it doesn't set all the other prefs automatically, it's being used and is obeyed directly by all of the code that deals with AI.

My understanding is that they'll all be controlled ultimately by `browser.ml.enable` and that there will be a checkbox in the preferences too.

It's easy to check: https://searchfox.org/firefox-main/search?q=browser.ml.enable&path=&case=false&regexp=false

If you find an AI-related feature not controlled by this pref, please file a bug. A quick check by myself showed that it's the case, but I didn't do an exhaustive check.

Search - mozsearch

Show threadJulien W.Nov 26

@abucci I understand the scrutiny, and that you all want Mozilla to follow high standards, and that's OK in my opinion.

But maybe, just maybe, sometimes you folks could check before sighing and ranting at Mozilla. Because sometimes we're doing the right thing and a little bit of support would be nice when that happens.

Show threadComplexity of systems 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 5
@abucci the only one of Firefoxs "AI" "features" I have either willingly used is the local translation thing which I would rather use than Google translate and that's about all that can be said about it
Show threadPaulDec 10
@abucci Quite a few of those features can be turned off without needing to go into about:config. Much easier and much safer.
Show threadAnthonyDec 10
@[email protected] I'm not going to poke through a settings panel and hope. I want all these settings permanently off. I don't want the settings to be reverted after upgrade, which some reports suggest is happening. I don't want new configuration options that I'm opted into by default to pop up without my knowing.

Right now watching about:config is the only viable way to satisfy those requirements.

"Much safer"? AI/LLMs are not safe. I'll make safety judgments for myself, thanks. "Much easier"? I'll be the judge of that, thanks.

A strange reply, I have to say--it's unclear what your motivations are for posting this.
Show threadPaulDec 10

@abucci Saving you and others from having to poke around in about:config and risking data loss and damaging your own Fx setup was the aim.

The settings screen is much easier to navigate and safer to use for most people and with good reason it does not have the same warning screen as about:config.

Show threadAnthonyDec 10
@[email protected] And you believe I don't know this because.........?
Saving you
Check that savior complex talk please.
Show threadfirebreathingduckDec 17

@abucci

I'm intensely curious what percentage of Firefox users are tech-savvy enough to use Firefox in 2025 but excited to use AI? I would think it's less than half.

"You know all of that unethical, privacy-invasive, environmentally damaging, frequently inaccurate technology you refuse to use? Well, have I got good news for you!"

What's next, built in NFTs?

Show threadAnthonyDec 17
@[email protected] I am curious as well.

Mozilla's new CEO is all-in on AI, though, regardless of what its users want: https://lwn.net/Articles/1050826/
Third: Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.
He says the word "trust" a whole bunch of times yet intends to turn an otherwise nice web browser into a slop-slinging platform. I don't expect this will work out very well for anyone.
Mozilla gets a new CEO: Anthony Enzor-DeMeo

Mozilla has announced a new CEO, Anthony Enzor-DeMeo. Prior to becoming CEO, Enzor-DeMeo was ge [...]

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