Mastodawn

In two recent public speaking engagements, I made a comparison between the obesity epidemic in various pockets of the globe and AI. Several people came up afterwards and said that was the best analogy they'd heard, so maybe it's worth repeating here. Also, I feel like this one will hold up a while.

What I said was some recent CDC figures show that something like 55 percent of the average American diet comes from processed or highly processed "foods," and the numbers are even higher for kids. In a similar way, so much of what AI produces is akin to highly processed data: Its myriad origins are murky at best, you often don't feel great after using it a while, and if you are exposed to it too much it might just freaking kill you.

Wigbert B 🎻🏛🎭🎤🗞🎥📚Nov 3

indeed this is a good analogy for #AI - especially „highly processed data”

SiberCecurity Nov 3

@briankrebs choose your poison: highly processed data or actual indians?

Joe Brockmeier Nov 3

@briankrebs For the love of goodness, *please* do not go there. There are far too many people looking for any opportunity to lecture others on their diet, exercise, and so forth.

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@jzb I think our extreme reliance on processed food is a debate that is very much worth having. And it's inextricable from a very real and pressing public health issue that deserves a great deal more sunshine.

Joe Brockmeier Nov 3

@briankrebs Because... nobody knows that they need to lose weight? I don't think so. There is no debate to be had -- people *know* and there are *so* many issues at play, you are seriously muddying the waters and distracting from whatever point you might want to make around AI.

We all *have* to eat, and often people have less control than you might think about what they choose to eat. We do not all have to adopt AI. Again: this just gives a number of scolds an opportunity to climb on their favorite soapbox and lecture people.

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@jzb okay. thanks for the feedback!

Ben Pettis Nov 4

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@jzb @briankrebs

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@briankrebs @jzb IMO the third rail of fatshaming can be avoided easily while keeping the analogy by not using the word “obesity” and its ilk, but rather talking about the dismal American diet.

Whether it makes us fat or not is beside the point. It’s high-calorie, low-nutrition, quantity over quality.

Also, both low-qual food and low-qual genslop are shiny, ubiquitous, and super-available to people with low resources and skills. Worse than free, vigorously promoted.

@jzb @briankrebs

"This just gives a number of scolds an opportunity to climb on their favorite soapbox and lecture people", says a local scold on their favorite soapbox, lecturing us all in the guise of lecturing Brian.

It brings to mind a certain rebuttal, "If you don't like the act, finish your drink, burn your cross, and go home." -- Lenny Bruce

Hana Aianhanma Nov 4

@jzb @briankrebs Apparently, people still don't know they are up against an obesogenic envionment?

Which, for me, would be the point of the comparison. Not to blame people for their so-called choice to eat ultra processed foods, but to emphasise that our data is being hijacked by a trillion dollar industry that does not have our mental health as a priority.

@jzb @briankrebs

Sure, just like we have a choice in having or not having a smart phone.

You can chose not to but that is completely unrealistic if you’re living as part of society. Metro passes/payment, parking, access to buildings, banking, identification.

On top of that you have even less choice of not using AI as it’s just being used for plenty of parts of the infra we are both using right now.

BrianKrebs Nov 4

@elebertus @jzb Yup. AI is also being used to summarize the news in misleading ways almost half the time. Or summarize your search results in a really unhelpful or dangerous way.

@briankrebs @jzb agreed, and a non-zero amount of time when you do investigate the cited sources it doesn’t even make sense.

As in the LLM reports X is adversarial with Y, but really X and Y are allied against G and P.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@briankrebs The better comparison, in my opinion, is toxic waste, forever chemicals. AI slop poisons the well and the fields and is hard, if not impossible, to recycle. Digital toxic waste. Eats resources and doesn’t give back. A new ozone hole. And just as we did back then, we can fix it.

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@jwildeboer Well that yes, and also it has a toxic affect on the people that use it most, I believe, because they are more likely to rely on it for important things than maybe they should.

@briankrebs +1🧐
Speaking of #obesity, study after study have linked the plight of #Pacific islanders to their "imported" diet of processed western "food": "In many parts of the Pacific, unhealthy #food is #cheap, #convenient, & pushed heavily through #advertising. Healthy food, on the other hand, may be increasingly difficult to get & more #expensive in the face of droughts, floods & rising seas caused by #climatechange"
👉Slop from #GenAI is also convenient & promoted!🤦‍♂️
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/about/how-we-work/pacific-support/news/detail/04-03-2024-study-finds-pacific-accounts-for-9-of-the-10-most-obese-countries-in-the-world

Study finds Pacific accounts for 9 of the 10 most obese countries in the world

Wren Reilly Nov 3

@briankrebs More things to consider: Food deserts. No safe places to walk. No safe places to play. Endocrine disrupting chemicals. Environmental racism leading to disproportionate rates of health issues that interfere with exercise and metabolism. A pandemic that causes long term post-exertional malaise, heart disease, and diabetes among other things. BMI based on white men, so obesity stats based on it are racist and sexist. Mixing up aesthetic standards and health.

Blaming health issues primarily on individual choices is deeply ableist and has a disturbing history.

Please talk to people who really know about public health.

Cap E Bara Nov 3

@briankrebs "highly processed" is something the take-osphere has latched onto because it has no real scientific meaning.

in effect it's an argument from naturalism

using it here might not have the effect you think it does

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@cap_ybarra the take-osphere. That's a new one me, thanks!

Fritz Adalis Nov 3

@briankrebs
AI makes you fat, got it.

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@FritzAdalis you forgot lethargic and cognitively impaired

Fritz Adalis Nov 3

@briankrebs
Damn. I must be using a lot of AI.

aburka 🫣Nov 3

@briankrebs digital HFCS

cynthia rose is desirable Nov 3

@briankrebs
Don’t do this.

Food is necessary for survival, AI isn’t.

If you have $40 to feed a family of four for a week, nobody’s getting organic arugula salads with tomatoes and crumbled feta for lunch, are they?

Healthy whole food is a privilege and a luxury. Never forget that.

BrianKrebs Nov 3

@cynthiarose We're big supporters of our local food banks and farm co-ops, because people should be able to have access to better food, regardless of their income. In fact, this year they're getting most of our giving. But I also feel like your response misconstrues or obviates the point I was trying to make. There are ways to disagree that don't amount to "you should be ashamed for even broaching this topic." I really admire the free exchange of ideas here, and I'm apt to mute most people who proceed to lecture on what's okay and not okay to discuss.

cynthia rose is desirable Nov 3

@briankrebs I’ll just let you marinate in your own words bc wow.

@briankrebs interesting. I have content (used for a few years now) on energy va information (using a bee / flower system as an example). Which I evolve into the same story. There is a line that is crossed when food goes from burdensome subsistence, to enabling, to unhealthy. In the energy system. With information following the same path.

Minds becoming “lazy, fat and dependent”.

Count Holdem Nov 4

@briankrebs Not unlike Rome's rather precipitous fall.

So much for sustainable root infrastructure.

nixCraft 🐧Nov 4

@briankrebs both are unhealthy

@briankrebs very well phrased. I will use that in my classes.

Kevin Russell Nov 4

AI, Brian reveals, is essentially baloney.