herseycokguzelolacakAlmost 100,000 young men flee Ukraine in two months
BobrI wonder if in retrospect this will be considered “the straw that broke the camel’s back”?
Putting aside the jokes about “they don’t gain ground fast enough therefore I win”, Zelensky’s strategy of fighting with a slave army of kidnapped men was and still is quite sucessful - Russia liberates no more than tens of km2 a day.
But now, for whatever reason, he lets a good chunk of potential cannon fodder leave. Eventually running out of cannon fodder was always a ticking time bomb, and now it’s even worse…
The reason Russia liberates no more than tens of km2 a day is because Russia has the advantage at multiple levels and therefore can afford to move more slowly, risk fewer casualties, gather better intelligence, and maintain a sufficiently responsive position in the case of surprise.
It is not to Russia’s detriment that they move slow they are choosing it.
Ah right, thanks for pointing out my mistake!
When talking about army of kidnapped slaves I of course meant the one from the country where busification (act of violently kidnapping someone to send them to the meatgrinder, obviously against their will) has become “the word of 2024” according to a dictionary organization from that same country.
Would you be so kind to help me to identify this country, pretty please?
When talking about army of kidnapped slaves I of course meant the one from the country where busification (act of violently kidnapping someone to send them to the meatgrinder, obviously against their will) has become “the word of 2024” according to a dictionary organization from that same country.
Would you be so kind to help me to identify this country, pretty please?
Russia. They conscripted. They also ran out of them so had to empty prisons and use them. And when that wasn’t enough, conscripted again. And also enlist from overseas, offering lavish pay to Africans and Pakistanis et al for engineering and analytics jobs in the army but were actually sent to the front lines (so they’d die and not have to continue paying them).
A marked difference from conscription in defence of the homeland wouldn’t you say?
Don’t get discouraged, few lemmy instances are just ripe with pro-Russian scum. It’s important to counter their pro-Russian propaganda with pro-Ukraine.
(It is also true that Ukraine detains young men who are doding the draft)
Two things can indeed be true.
When your country is under invasion and you have a legally mandated conscription … of course people will be scared and try to evade it.
But they try and hand wave over the fact that Russia also does it and much worse, especially when they don’t need to because they’re fighting an offensive war (badly).
America had the draft and so did Britain. Was that decried as abhorrent?
Two things can indeed be true. Like Russia invading Ukraine and Russia defending itself from NATO expansion in the bigger picture.
Or like the fact that Ukrainian people are the biggest victim of this war and Ukrainian government is a Yankee proxy that caused this war.
Ah the NATO expansion argument.
And yea Ukrainians are suffering, from Russia, who didn’t need to invade and genocide them.
Ifs, buts and what about
GraphoGenocide lmao. Y’all need to shut the fuck up with that.
Despite Ukraine’s best efforts, civilian casualties in this war have been remarkably low compared to other conflicts and ESPECIALLY compared to any conflict the US has been involved in so do shut up and unlutch those pearls if you’d be so kind.
Civilian casualties have been low 😆y’all need to shut the fuck up with that.
Do you think flattened villages, towns, cities in the first year had no casualties? That the massive missile and drone attacks each night yield no deaths? I mean they’re low now, almost four years in and laughably ineffective but some do get through and kill random civilians.
queermunist she/herThe numbers published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights: 14,383 killed and 37,541 injured since 2022. The true numbers are probably higher, but this isn’t Gaza.
I’m not saying it is Gaza. No one is. I’m saying they’re doing “Gaza-like” things. A key difference is that Israel essentially shoots Palestinians on sights and have a blatant disregard to human rights and human life.
That’s not to say that Russia is a white knight in comparison.
That “key difference” is precisely how we can tell that Russia isn’t committing genocide, nor does it intend to.
2 definitions of genocide are forcing transfer of children and removal of national identity.
Putin has stated and played down the national identity of Ukraine. He believes it to be a small subset of russia.
And it is widely reported that children were taken, especially in the first year from invaded areas, and are being adopted by Russian families or placed into boarding or the military.
And if you knew anything of Russian history towards Ukraine, you’d know there is absolutely precedent for these things. People and countries can change, my country for example is very close allies with France despite being absolute bitter enemies for countless centuries. But from listening to Putin and his talk of Ukraine, he has not changed.
Why hasn’t the ICJ opened a case?
This isn’t a matter of technical definition, it’s the crime of crimes. There’s a reason no legal case for genocide has been made, it’s because the standards for it are too high for anything Russia has done to meet.
Calling it genocide cheapens the term.
Well, only SA has an ICJ case of genocide in Gaza, but we all know it is one.
Stop cheapening the term with your far right Russian propaganda.
Actually other countries have joined SA in their genocide case: Nicaragua, Belgium, Colombia, Turkey, Libya, Egypt, Maldives, Mexico, Ireland, Chile, Spain, and Palestine itself. The UN itself weighed in too and called Israel’s actions a genocide.
Any country could bring a genocide case against Russia, yet no one has.
Doesn’t that tell you anything?
Russia liberates
lol
So what happens when Ukraine loses? Are we at war with Russia then?
Cowbee [he/they]NATO can’t field an actual war against Russia, NATO countries don’t have the industrial capacity to do so. NATO has big scary tools, but not many of them, and in a protracted war where the industrial power wins Russia would win out. It would be very bloody, long, and NATO would lose, so it’s unlikely that there will be all-out war.
Hyper_red [she/her, she/her]I think if NATO did go to war with Russia, it knows it has a much larger military and supposedly “better” equipment.
I think they’d try to end it really quickly and either totally devestate russia quickly or take out their industry.
But Israel-iran has showed that not even America has the ability to do an actual war against another industrial power
If they had to, then they would try shock and awe. Protracted war wouldn’t work out, whoever has industry holds the cards long-term. Russia would go for stall tactics, I would think.
Operation Barbarossa 2: Surely this time it’ll be like Poland
I think if NATO did go to war with Russia, it knows it has a much larger military and supposedly “better” equipment.
I think they’d try to end it really quickly and either totally devestate russia quickly or take out their industry.
Okay wild fantasies aside, back here in the real world, what’s NATO supposed to actually do? If they try to ‘devastate’ Russia, as in attempt to turn it into Gaza, Russia will 100% nuke the offending countries seriously firing this kind of barrage against them. They’ve been reasonable against Ukraine because Ukraine has hardly been a threat (in fact most Russians would probably say too reasonable), but if a threat they’ve credibly been fearing for decades decided to pull out all the stops, so will they; NATO knows this which is why they weren’t officially in the war this whole time; the best time to be involved was literally day 1, the next best time was day 2, and so on and so forth.
The simple fact is when Ukraine falls, the war is over; you want a country that was willing to risk their safety to get involved in a conflict? You have Yemen, they showed what a country willing to get bombed is willing to do; Euro countries don’t want to get bombed; Let me say that again: Euro countries don’t. want. to. get. bombed. All these countries in Europe had their chance to show how far they were willing to oppose Russia, back when Ukraine had a lot more people to throw in the meat grinder; there’s a lot less Ukrainians now who can and will fight, and Euro forces would have to bear the brunt of the fighting, and if they were willing to do this, they would’ve done it far earlier. Europe. Is. Scared. They won’t join this fight.
When Ukraine falls, the war is over.
Oh yeah was between NATO and Russia is never happening anywhere outside the mashpiratory fantasies of European liberals
PolandIsAStateOfMindI love libs in this thread, some of them are like “Ukraine is winning” and some like “Russia will invade entire Europe”. They gained both takes by following the same propaganda.
By a shifting of rhetorical focus, and so forth
Russia can’t even beat ukraine.
They are steadily achieving all of their stated objectives for the SMO. Russia isn’t trying to do a Marvel-style total destruction of Ukraine like you see in hollywood depictions of war.
“steadily” as in… they complete one every couple of years? How long until they’re done? 10-20-30 years? They started this in 2014 and 11 years later they’ve accomplished next to nothing beyond creating a pile of bodies.
If germany took this long to take poland it probably wouldn’t have been world war at all.
The SMO started in 2022. In 2014, after the western-backed Euromaidan coup, Crimea was annexed but then there were multiple attempts to resolve things peacefully, called the Minsk Agreements, which Kiev broke both times. In 2014, Donetsk and Luhansk seceded from the new far-right led Ukraine, fastforward to 2022 after a decade of fighting and Russia agrees to go in and resolve things by force.
Since 2022, Russia has steadily been gaining more and more territory, and has nearly completely taken the four oblasts they declared as their targets for annexation. Ukraine has slowly but steadily been losing ground, and NATO has proven to be incapable of matching Russian industrial output. Russia isn’t trying to do a Blitzkreig, they are going carefully to fully demillitarize Ukraine and prevent casualties on their own end. They have the industrial capacity to field a protracted war, so they are playing to their advantage.
I read a few articles that said at russias current pace it would take them a hundred years to take Ukraine.
They aren’t trying to take Ukraine, though, and they can progress faster as frontlines are broken through. Pokrovsk, as an example, is currently encircled by Russian forces and will probably be abandoned by Kiev soon, or a large-scale siege will occur.
Whether you’re pro-Ukrainian or not, it’s important to recognize that Ukraine is steadily losing ground and has far less staying power in a protracted war than Russia does. Russia’s advancing slowly and basically forcing a long-term war, which works in their favor.
Shame Russia is doing so poorly after so long and with so many casualties. Plus their own economy is in the shitter. Having to import oil and gas now since their refineries seem to always be on fire. And pick up soldiers from Africa and Indonesia and let’s not forget North Korea.
Ukraine will fight to the last man
Russia is achieving its objectives, it’s economy is strengthened by trade with BRICS, and the damage on refineries has been minimal. Ukraine doesn’t want to fight to the last man, support for the war is waning and forced conscription is already in place. The fact that Russia has volunteers from the DPRK, Cuba, etc doesn’t mean they are losing, Ukraine has volunteers from western countries as well.
I hope the Ukrainian people can be free from this war soon, and that means surrender now. I don’t share your bloodlust.
If Ukraine had 10000 troops from any NATO nation the outcome would be much different.
Those NK troops got used as fodder
I really doubt 10,000 NATO troops would make any tangible difference besides escalation from Russia’s side. The troops from the DPRK were largely sent to honor the defense agreement and to get troop training in Kursk, which was successful for the DPRK.
Th only way Russia can “escalate” is nukes or more strikes at civilian targets. They don’t have a secret reserve of highly trained and experienced troops they could magically send to win the war
Russia has tools like Oreshnik and T-90s that they aren’t fielding. There’s a lot of ways the war can escalate without relying on nukes or civilian targets.
Why won’t they field their best stuff and win the war quickly?
Because that’s not how economies of war work. Russia doesn’t need to waste their best equipment when they are doing well with their current equipment, they just need to gradually proceed as they are to minimize their own casualties. Avoiding mines, encircling strongholds before taking them, etc wouldn’t make any sense to field the best stuff that also costs the most to replace.
Bloodlust lol.
The war can be over if Russia gets the fuck out. Ukraine will fight to the bitter end. Absolutely. They do not, categorically and historically, want to be under Russian rule. And that rings true for pretty much every ex-Soviet nation.
No, there is no fantasy universe where Russia just turns around and stops when they are winning the war. Ukrainians do not want to be sacrificed for foreign profits, and are deserting in huge numbers (see the subject of this post). The far-right nationalist movements in ex-soviet states are temporary, in the long run there will be a return to socialism. There was no “Russian rule” in the USSR.
In what way?
So you don’t really have a point, just ad hominem.
I absolutely have given many points here and never once resorted to ad hominem.
By all means clarify your points.
Your position though is clearly biased against Ukraine, given the instance you’re positing form.
I’m biased in that I’m a communist, sure, but my methods of analysis focus on material reality, not marvel-esque ideas of Russia just turning around and walking away right as it’s clear they are winning.
That’s how the Russian army works. Legitimately look at every front in modern history, hell you can go back pretty far.
Russians know how to do one thing, die. They win wars by attrition. They slow down armies with winter or their own corpses.
Russian war isn’t a strategy, it’s a death pact.
Straight up Nazi shit
They did spend millions of lives against the Nazis, that’s true! Their leadership spent tens of millions of lives sending undertrained and underequipped troops to die and be forgotten or be captured and tortured and killed by the nazis.
Spent lives like no other group in the war, but they got em! They keep an entire front stalemated on a pile of sacrificed young Russian men. And for some reason that’s just how they do it in Russia.
Yes, you’re a Nazi, we get it. You can stop proving it now
redchert