Mastodawn

Anyone to advise an #emailprovider to replace #proton #protonmail ?
Any alternative to the full Proton suite would actually be welcome.
Ideally based in #EU #europe #EuropeanUnion #RGPD #GDPR
#Privacy
UPDATE: here it is, I'm looking for an email provider (no problem to pay), with

no AI shit (even if it's "tools", like scribe for Proton users),
unlimited aliases,
possibility to send encrypted emails if needed.
why not includes a calendar.
I also need to find a Proton Pass and Proton Drive alternative.
I find Proton has become a very centralised thing (mail, passwords, calendars, drive, docs, vpn, crypto wallet [wtf bros?] and even an LLM.) The advantage is you pay once and you have access to everything. But I don't like centralised stuff.

Ramses Revengeday

@hardtech Maybe @Tutanota ? :)

hardtech.fts Oct 26

@revengeday @Tutanota I already have a free account, and I like that they don't use AI :)
I checked others like startmail, mailbox, fastmail, but I need to hear some people who are currently using them ;)

@hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota
I don't have any suggestion but I like the question
Maybe a set of service, perhaps @mailbox_org has some of them under the same company

@hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota @mailbox_org
Bitwarden replaces proton pass
I'm actually doing the same because of centralization
In my case, trying to selfhost things 😵‍💫

hardtech.fts Oct 26

@rafaelm7o @revengeday @Tutanota @mailbox_org good luck with self hosting 😉

hardtech.fts Oct 27

@rafaelm7o @revengeday @Tutanota @mailbox_org have you tried Yunohost?

@hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota @mailbox_org
I think I already have everything up and running, using OpenBSD and other for docker things
My concerns are around the backup strategy

Martin Geisler Oct 29

@hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota Just as a FYI, note that @Tutanota doesn't actually offer standard encrypted emails (#OpenPGP, #GPG or #PGP which has been used for decades): https://tuta.com/encryption

You of course don't notice this if you only send emails between Tuta users, but if you try to send an encrypted email externally, well then the whole thing breaks down and you end up having to arrange a secure way of sending a password to the recipient: https://tuta.com/support#encrypted-emails-external

Everything you need to know about Tuta's encryption. | Tuta

Details on how the encrypted email & calendar service Tuta encrypts all data.

Tuta

Martin Geisler Oct 29

@hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota I only realized this recently... and I was rather surprised to see this since I see #Tuta mentioned here and there as an alternative to #ProtonMail.

Exchanging passwords by hand is... worse than what I had 20 years ago when I would encrypt my emails to by university friends using #Gnus in #Emacs 😄

virshawn Oct 31

@mgeisler @hardtech @revengeday @Tutanota why can’t you still use the open PGP or GPG using Tuta with Emacs to encrypt?

@mgeisler @hardtech @revengeday This is correct. We've built the end-to-end encryption similar to PGP to make it work more efficiently (faster on mobile devices), so it can encrypt more data, and so we were able to implement quantum-resistant algorithms in a hybrid protocol.

Alonely0 🦀 🇪🇺Oct 30

@Tutanota @mgeisler @hardtech @revengeday it's xkcd standards all over again /shrug.

Blue Ghost Nov 12

@hardtech
Consider https://mastodon.online/@blueghost/115071163559268905 if you are interested in encrypting messages via StartMail.

Blue Ghost (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image StartMail promotes making PGP encryption easy with just one click to encrypt email. CLARIFICATION Webmail client supports PGP. PGP is implemented server-side. Server-side does not support end-to-end encryption. SUMMARY Server-side PGP is more secure than plaintext email. Client-side PGP is more secure than server-side. ALTERNATIVE Thunderbird desktop client: https://mastodon.online/@blueghost/111891560151967986 Website: https://www.startmail.com #StartMail #Encryption #E2EE #Privacy #CyberSecurity #InfoSec #Thunderbird

Mastodon

Wasted Radiance Oct 26

I wouldn't recommend Tuta. They have an order of magnitude fewer users than Proton Mail (10 M vs 100 M). And since they only encrypt emails sent to Tuta users, Tuta is only a 10th as useful (in my opinion).

This doesn't consider Tuta's allegedly superior encryption (I don't think it matters) or that Proton will encrypt emails sent to anyone with a PGP key (which definitely matters).

StartMail seems like a great option (I haven't used it), or you can use Thunderbird.

hardtech.fts Oct 26

@WastedRadiance for what I see about #startmail I like it already. But they don't have apps for smartphones (we can pin the website on the smartphones screen though)

Wasted Radiance Oct 26

StartMail supports third-party email clients, so you can use K-9 mail (A.K.A. Thunderbird mobile)

https://support.startmail.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001112237-Email-Clients

Email Clients – StartMail

StartMail works on every modern mobile device, but it's also possible to set it up in your favorite email client.

Eriatolc Oct 27

@hardtech the kdrive suite by infomaniak?

Guillaume Gaullier Oct 27

@hardtech I am happy with @mailbox_org
Works great for emails, contacts, calendars. I don't use their online office suite and file storage, but they offer that too. They don't offer a password manager, and I don't think they should.

For a password manager, I can highly recommend @keepassxc

I hope this helps!

hardtech.fts Oct 27

@Guillawme @mailbox_org @keepassxc mailbox me fait clairement de l'œil avec Startmail, j'hésite entre les deux.
Pour keepassxc je connais bien, mais j'ai besoin des mdp y compris quand je suis à l'extérieur, donc sur mon téléphone (j'ai pas mon pc quand je suis à l'étranger). J'avais pensé à Bitwarden Vaultwarden, ou encore AliasVault 🤔

Guillaume Gaullier Oct 28

@hardtech Je ne connaissais pas Startmail, merci !
Pour l'instant je n'ai aucune raison de quitter mailbox.org, mais c'est toujours bien d'avoir des alternatives.

Martin Geisler Oct 29

@hardtech Hey there 👋 I work at Proton, but on Calendar (I'm a Rust developer there).

I'm curious why you want to migrate away?

hardtech.fts Oct 29

@mgeisler hey! It's not really a migration because I need the drive, calendar, vpn and, of course, emails.
It's been a long time I wanted to test Startmail, because I'm curious. Here is what I like so far:

the possibility to send emails protected by a password
unlimited aliases, for 7€/m
possibility to program filters (example: if the email contains a certain word, it goes in the folder you chose for this kind of email. If it's not so clear I can send you screenshots)

Martin Geisler Oct 29

@hardtech Thanks for the reply! I saw the edit to the top post, and I agree about the crypto wallet stuff 😆

You're also right that Proton is growing to a full suite of products, #ProtonMeet is coming up next: https://proton.me/meet — we're already using it internally and it's pretty slick!

I can definitely recognize the urge to not centralize things: back in the day, I hosted my own mail, I compiled my own Kernel and I configured my own firewall...

Proton Meet: Secure, end-to-end encrypted video conferencing | Proton

Proton Meet is a secure, privacy-first video conferencing tool that protects your video calls with end-to-end encryption.

Proton

Martin Geisler Oct 29

Nowadays, most of this moved to the cloud: I use the #Google suite for nearly everything outside of work (shocker I know, but I worked there until earlier this year, I don't think they're as bad as the conspiracy theories say 😄).

I hope you have fun tinkering with this! As an engineer, I can vouch for Proton and I hope we can improve on the speed of delivering features!