If your criticism of "big tech" is merely a result of the unhappiness about the fact that Meta, Google and Microsoft aren't EU-corporations you are missing the point.
There is nothing that indicates that SAP or Deutsche Telekom would hesitate a second at the chance of becoming equally violent and exploitative forces.
The solution to Big Tech isn't EU Big Tech. It's de-commercialisation and democratization of tech.
I see some of you starting to type something like
"But Malte, in the EU we have value-based regulation like GDPR and DSA. Our Big Tech would be much friendlier than THOSE americans."
I'll tell you a secret: We only have GDPR, DSA etc because it's foreign Big Tech. If it were European corporations digitally dominating the globe our regulation would be as tame as those in the US.
@khleedril @ridscherli @malteengeler
Capitalism always happens in the context of the rules of the state. Both in EU and at USA.
Thus you can't say that different types or levels of state control is "socialism" and the other is "capitalism". I suppose your confusion comes from Soviets' state capitalism, where they tried to speedrun into socialism.
Ultimately "capitalism" means an ideology where only money is important, of which there's never enough.
EDIT: Writing the above as a teacher.
@khleedril @malteengeler
I bored you by asking the same question twice? I'm not here to entertain you, mate, sorry.
The health(care) system isn't socialist, it's merely addressing basic human rights, and not that reliably in most EU countries. Insurances often won't even cover the bare essentials people require to exist.
Socialism refers to economic systems that are characterized by common (social) ownership over the means of production. Insurances aren't socialist, they are private companies
@dirk @malteengeler that's right. However you must not underestimate the influence on public AND political opinion, when prominent people or CEOs talk such bs, no matter if it's obvious to everyone or not. In this case it's not even obvious to most people, who actually see this as a good thing, that only got "too far".
Don't forget, that Industries (or even companies, if they can afford it) have lobbyists, who try to push things like these into legislation, if they're asked to.
@malteengeler I do not agree completely, also because there is no unified EU. I do not think the rules like GDPR were created against US big tech, they were created because enough people cared about personal rights.
What is right, is that the people calling for EU big tech do not care about these rights and that they will win if we do not fight.
Example: future #nichtmeinkanzler in germany said data protection should not prevent innovation (for medical data !!!).
On the other hand, twitter should have been taken down for its data usage, but it was not. This tells how some EU instance can well live with US big tech.
@malteengeler @tante The GDPR is almost 9 years old already. When it was announced we weren’t nearly as worried about big tech as we are today.
So I do think that GDPR was made with the right intentions, not just against American big tech.
But I also agree with you that enforcement may have been less if big tech consisted of European companies.
@malteengeler Cory doctorow and EFF go all on adversarial interoperability.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/doctorow-interoperability-2664563919
@natacha @becha @malteengeler @anneroth @meileaben @titipi
Yep, the tech is wrong - and this not even taking into account the corruption and incompetence of the people tasked to implement it #eurocrasey
@malteengeler I very much agree with your argument. Thanks for making it so clearly.
That said, I don’t see any threat from SAP in particular. They couldn’t design a user friendly UI to save their lives.
@malteengeler I think that an example that goes in your direction is Spotify. It's European, but pretty much working under the Big Tech approach and paying peanuts to artists.
I wouldn't dismiss EU Tech though as such. It happens to be on the right side of the value-based discussion, so let's use this. A European alternative, today, offers more guarantees than a US one.
Your criticism about EU *Big* Tech, however, I find it very adequate.
@reginaldodr
It's just good old capitalism
Agree but: As long = if (big IF, I know), our data are protected, EU big tech would nevertheless be better than US facist tech.
@malteengeler until proven otherwise my hypothesis is that the reason we dont have "EU bigtech" is not moral superiority or technical inferiority but simply nationalistic barricades. The same forces that prevent e.g. European "superbanks". The irony is that US bigtech sidesteped these as a neutral "third party".
But complete decommercialization is pure fantasy.
What I see as plausible is a mix of a digital commons and sandboxed commercial sevices.
Details left as exercise to the reader :-)
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