Mastodawn

Some random facts and thoughts. (thread)

The app icon is actually not new. Someone liked its predecessor, the app DaftCloud (a SoundCloud app for the Mac), and made this icon for me. Arthur Lambillotte kindly gave it to me for free for Daft Music.

If you have the great App Icon Book by @flarup for macOS, you can already find it in there!
#indiedev #macosdev #buildinpublic #applemusic #spotify

I recorded most of the videos on the Onboarding myself. If you wonder who the guy vibing at the desk is. It's me. 😭
#indiedev #macosdev #buildinpublic #applemusic #spotify

Henry Henderson Oct 13

@obrhoff First time seeing a wall-mounted Mac. That’s pretty cool.

Some more random thoughts:

I started this about six months ago, working on it in my free time. I told myself not to spend too much time on it this time. I probably did too much for an MVP, but at the same time people keep saying there’s still a lot missing.

I’m confused. 😭
#indiedev #macosdev #buildinpublic #applemusic #spotify

Amy Worrall Oct 13

@obrhoff Everyone abuses the term MVP.

Firstly you have the people who think you should make something totally minimal, and ignoring the V (viable). It's got to be fleshed out enough to capture your niche and be useful.

And then you have the people who assume that MVP just means “build the whole damn app", and think that their pet feature request is actually part of the core value proposition.

@amyworrall 😂 so true.

niccolo Oct 13

@obrhoff have you considered providing a one-off purchase solution? I really would love to give your app a go but the idea of adding a subscription to a subscription gives me the heebie jeebjes

@niccolo I might think about it but I already burned my hands on a one-off purchase.

niccolo Oct 14

@obrhoff fair! I just think a subscription on top of a subscription will be putting a lot of people off. But you know what's best to sustain your development efforts!

I’ve seen a lot of discussion about the subscription model lately, especially since some people got really upset about it. I tried to make it as affordable as possible while still supporting the development for something you probably use ever day (€2 a month).

On the other hand, I see app developers on YouTube mostly talking about SEO and charging €10 a week for really simple stuff.

Am I holding it wrong?
#indiedev #macosdev #buildinpublic #applemusic #spotify

I feel like we have all been socialized to expect that a corporate company is covering the costs, that something is paid for by VCs or that a horde of open-source volunteers are doing things for ideological reasons.

Enshittification made this clear and you cannot expect the restaurant around the corner to compete with McDonald. They don’t have same economics as giants built on exploitation and scale.

Now I stop with my random thoughts. 🫠
#indiedev #macosdev #buildinpublic #applemusic #spotify

numbers Oct 15

@obrhoff This is all true, and I love supporting small & local businesses, but at the same time, subscription pricing belongs to subscription services. I would rather pay for software and own it, even if the company behind it shuts down their servers. The same cannot be said for services, since a service will rely on a remote server to function. I really think you have crafted a beautiful app, but maybe there are other, more creative, out-of-the-box ideas that can get you sustainable funding.

@numbers I think it’s more complex since there are running costs involved like a small backend service and the App Store Developer fee.

If there is a different business model, I'm not aware of something better. Even apps that made a 1-year update, after which you pay for new features, moved to a subscription.

Better question: Would it make more sense to sell the current version, provide bug fixes, and hold back features for a new year, so I can sell you a new version?

@obrhoff everyone's a critic.

It's not worth aiming for not receiving complaints, that's impossible. Make it free, open source and you still get weird stuff in your inbox.

@obrhoff I love the reasonable price. Might get away with charging more, but in the $1/mo realm there's so much potential imho

@obrhoff oh BTW local music app when???!

@ctietze Probably not for now, since there are already a lot of good apps such as Doppler and I think it can get very, very complex to support every file system, audio format, etc.

Especially because I don’t see a good business model in it, since most people who prefer offline music are even less willing to pay for a subscription.

@obrhoff fair point, wasn't asking in earnest :)

Once I start hating my life and upgrade to Tahoe, I'll def. check out Daft Music. Anything to get me away from Apple's app.

Pink Oct 15

@obrhoff I hate paying a subscription for everything. Even €2/mo adds up if done for 10 apps. But I totally get it. Developing an app is an ongoing cost, and that needs to be paid somehow. I think €2/mo for Daft Music is more than fair.

Maybe add a lifetime subscription at 3x the annual price or whatever for those who really want it, but I doubt that's something many people would buy. Might help with the psychology behind it because it feels like you have options, though.

@can I hate it too lol.

Making a lifetime subscription for a high price makes sense, but as you said, I don’t think people are really willing to pay €60 at once either.

I already made an app that went viral for €10 one-time purchase. First, people still complained about why it costs something. Second, revenue dried up, and it’s hard to legitimize spending time with it between contracting, family time, and other things in life.

Pink Oct 15

@obrhoff yeah, like Christian said, people will always complain. That's just a part of life. I think you're on the right track with your current pricing model.

Also, Windows version when? :P

joe kimberlin Oct 15

@obrhoff is this on reddit? they hate subscriptions with a passion, but regular users don’t seem to mind it in my experience.

@Joekw Yeah mostly on Reddit but it was also mentioned on a Podcast. Reddit user are probably the most opinionated people (like here I guess)

Mert Bulan Oct 15

@obrhoff pricing an app is really hard for me. I want to reach as many people as possible, but also I want to earn some money so I can justify my time to keep working on it. My pricing policy for my apps: 0,99$/month, 9,99/year, 17,99$/lifetime

Lucas ✦Oct 15

@obrhoff did you consider offering a lifetime option for something like €50 or more? Probably would still be fair if you doubled it.

At your current price, someone would need to subscribe for at least 2 years to bring in the same revenue while never having the feeling of owning Daft Music.

Henry Henderson Oct 15

@obrhoff For myself, I’ve noticed the factor that pushes me over the edge is when I have uninterrupted access to an app to develop dependence before being forced to pay.

@mimestream got me this way. It was in beta for years and when it became paid I begrudgingly forked over cash for it. By then I loved it, and it was essential to me.

Not necessarily a recommendation, but I know instant paywalls are a turnoff for me. For some it may piss them off to remove access later. Everyone is different. 🤷‍♂️

Henry Henderson Oct 15

@obrhoff Also, I sadly use Spotify. Your app got my attention because it’s beautiful and an awesome upgrade to the poor state of Apple’s and I would totally sub for it if I used Apple Music 😅

obrhoff Oct 16

@henryhenderson Actually, the app does not have a paywall. You can use all features but need the subscription to unlock the full playback instead of a 30-second preview.

To be honest, I can’t complain about the subscriptions. Anyway, there is a cool roadmap ahead to differentiate it from just an Apple Music frontend, and this is just Version 1.0. If the app would suck or not be useful, there would be no discussion about subscriptions at all.

Eric Wätke Oct 13

@obrhoff great timing, now that Spotify is increasing prices tomorrow

@cire901 They do? 🫠

@obrhoff at least for me they do

Daniel Kasaj Oct 13

@obrhoff Not what I expected on app launch

@danielkasaj Hmm, are you moving from the Public Beta? I think its because of this since your API Credentials are stored in the Keychain.

Daniel Kasaj Oct 13

@obrhoff honestly don’t remember. Don’t think I’ve ever successfully launched it

Nikhil Nigade Oct 13

@obrhoff LOVE the app icon

björn Oct 13

@obrhoff Nice one. How likely is it to get Last.fm scrobbling support? Asking for a friend… and me 😊

@boki It's in! Scrobbling since 2004.

@obrhoff Oh, cool!

@obrhoff Congrats on the launch! 🚀

Xavi Moll Oct 13

@obrhoff Congrats on the launch! 🥳

jan Oct 13

@obrhoff Congrats on the launch, looks promising! I'll give it a spin 💿

Florian Oct 13

@obrhoff Looks great, congrats!
Two questions that I couldn't find answers to within the app / webpage:

- Does playing music through Daft Music update the Listening History of Apple Music (e.g. show last played songs on iOS)? Even better: Does it support the corresponding Apple Music setting that can be controlled via focus modes?
- What exactly does “Import from Apple Music” do? If the app is an alternative client for Apple Music, why is there an import (instead of a continuous sync)?

@ffried The Listening History should be updated automatically. That’s something the Apple Music Framework does out of the box.

Apple Music itself does not have a real API that allows syncing. For example, you can only add tracks into a playlist but not remove or delete them.

So the app allows you to import those playlists and export them back into Apple Music. Architecture-wise, MusicKit is “just” a playback backend, which might get replaced by something like Tidal or so in the future.

Florian Oct 13

@obrhoff Got it, thanks!

Another one (which I fear has the same answer as the sync-question):
I noticed there's no "New" tab in Daft Music. Not (yet) implemented or not possible?
Personally, I use it quite frequently on the Mac to browse Music through the "more to explore" section at the end.

@ffried I would need to look through the API. I took the pleasure to document the whole WebAPI and I might have missed it (if its not part of the Home sections)

Florian Oct 13

@obrhoff Yea, no worries. Apple's own app is good enough for browsing these pages and the songs / playlists are then always reachable through search in Daft Music :)

Ammad Oct 13

@obrhoff Congratulations! The app icon is beautiful! I like the app landing webpage. Unfortunately, I can’t run it because I am still on Sequoia and I refuse to upgrade to Tahoe.

Kristoffer Johansson Oct 13

@obrhoff congrats on the launch! 🎉

Manuel Kehl Oct 13

@obrhoff congrats on the launch 🚀🎉

It looks gorgeous 🤩