lorenzobrgOct 7
Just van Rossum
I want to live in a world in which saying “I don't know” is considered more valuable than spewing plausible-sounding nonsense.
Oct 7 at 7:09amWeb
Show threadRadu ChelariuOct 7
@justvanrossum I’m partial to the “I don’t know, let’s find out [together]” variant.
Show threadWillow 🏳️‍⚧️🏴🇵🇸Oct 7
@justvanrossum i love it when my kid asks me something i dont know and i get to say “i don’t know, lets find out.”
Show threadMim54Oct 7
@justvanrossum best phrase ever 👍
Show threadArnd LayerOct 7
@justvanrossum
I live in this world. I’m just not sure how far it extends outside my head.
Show threadNoodlemazOct 7
@justvanrossum one of many reasons #genAI is a tool that props up only bad things.
Failing to say you don't know, or being actually unable to, never ends well
Show threadAuthor-ized L.J.Oct 8
@noodlemaz @justvanrossum so like are we talking about LLMs or Male Answer Syndrome https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/love-humor/mansplain-male-answer-syndrome-i-dont-know
Why Men Can’t Admit They Don’t Know Something

Anyone can show symptoms of Male Answer Syndrome, but let’s face it—it’s an affliction commonly found in dudes

Outside Online
Show threadNoodlemazOct 8
@ljwrites @justvanrossum both? Who runs the majority of these companies and decided how they should respond to users..?
Show threadAuthor-ized L.J.Oct 8
@noodlemaz @justvanrossum Yeah that was my thought too when I heard about LLM slop, "my God they've found a way to automate their bullshitting"
Show threadbook_dragonOct 7

@justvanrossum Great argument against LLMs and AI!

#noAI

Show threadAshwin DixitOct 7

@justvanrossum

....so.....not an AI user, huh? 😜

Show threadOzzelot Oct 7
@justvanrossum
I live in that world, and if people around me do not, I find it to be their problem.
Show threadtiny_mOct 7
@justvanrossum I was congratulated once by a colleague for saying in a meeting that something was beyond my capability and I couldn't do it, and I needed another pair of eyes on the problem. She was amazed I'd admitted to that in front of the rest of the team. I think it takes courage to admit you are not infallible, especially if you are female because lots of people will assume your lack of ability. It didn't make sense to pretend that I could do something that I'd already knew I couldn't tho
Show thread🍉 –Hans Bot– 🙃Oct 7
@justvanrossum @cedric I want to live in a world where something that randomly generates nonsense cannot be called intelligent
Show threadahimsaOct 7
@justvanrossum
Yes - especially doctors!
Show threadThommyOct 7
@justvanrossum or when someone guesses, they can give their reason and the caveats why they’re likely to be wrong.
Show threadMario BreskicOct 7
@justvanrossum But can you tolerate that others want to live in the other, in another, in their worlds over yours?
I am serious. Dead serious. Can you tolerate that? I’m asking as an internet friend.
Show threadJust van RossumOct 7
@mario “tolerate” is beyond my power, but I will have no understanding for people who *prefer* misinformation over “we don’t know the answer”.
Show threadMario BreskicOct 7
@justvanrossum Then this must be enough, and fair.
Show threaddrdr6262Nov 6

@justvanrossum @mario

Is that kind of person the basis of superstition and religion? Maybe there was once an evolutionary advantage to preferring false certainty, but we should be beyond that now.

Show threadMario BreskicNov 7
@drdr6262 See above.
Show threadCanadian CurmudgeonOct 7
@justvanrossum Seems like a very Big Lebowski/Dude sentiment...
Show threadFrederic ThevenetOct 8
@justvanrossum
In 5 years time:
"I know that I know nothing"... they used to teach that in universities, you know? Something about some old guy in Greece or Rome or whatever. Remember universities?
Show threadSpenotOct 8
@justvanrossum Me too, however... "Beyond proving hallucinations were inevitable, the OpenAI research revealed that industry evaluation methods actively encouraged the problem. Analysis of popular benchmarks, including GPQA, MMLU-Pro, and SWE-bench, found nine out of 10 major evaluations used binary grading that penalized “I don’t know” responses while rewarding incorrect but confident answers." https://www.computerworld.com/article/4059383/openai-admits-ai-hallucinations-are-mathematically-inevitable-not-just-engineering-flaws.html
OpenAI admits AI hallucinations are mathematically inevitable, not just engineering flaws

In a landmark study, OpenAI researchers reveal that large language models will always produce plausible but false outputs, even with perfect data, due to fundamental statistical and computational limits.

Computerworld
Show threadJust van RossumOct 8
@spenot what an insanely shit argument
Show threaddrdr6262Nov 6

@spenot @justvanrossum

Let's call them what they really are - confabulations.

Show threadIntaglio WhitegravenOct 8
@justvanrossum I've been conditioning myself more often lately into saying things like "I don't know" or "I'm not well informed enough on this subject to have an opinion." Those who are discussing a topic in good faith, tend to respect the latter.
Show threadbit101Oct 9
@justvanrossum "I don't know" is one of my favorite responses to anything. And is almost always true!
Show threadKevin Karhan Oct 12
@justvanrossum +1
Show threadMartin VogelOct 12
@justvanrossum
@newstik That would make many religious people very angry.
Show threadKaren E. Lund 💙💛Oct 12

@justvanrossum When I was working, I often said, "I don't know but I'll find out." Occasionally, "I don't know, ask [person likely to know]."

Now that I'm retired, it's between "I don't need to know anymore," and spending three hours in the library with books and WiFi.

Show threadHdunaganOct 22
@Karen5Lund @justvanrossum As a retired techie I do both. Newer tech? I don’t have to keep up with the Jones any. But I volunteer in tech now and do lots of “I don’t know, but I’ll find out” for friends.
Show threadKaren E. Lund 💙💛Oct 22
@hdunagan @justvanrossum Choosing what we do or do not need to know or do is one of the best privileges of retirement. (Of course there are still a few things we can't avoid...) It's also a privilege of volunteering, which I suppose is why you and I and many others choose to volunteer in retirement.