Is Sid Meier's Civilisation a Roguelike?
Procedural Generation - check
Permadeath - check
No Meta-Progression - check
Turn-Based - Check
Grid-based - check
Resource Management - check
Tactical Challenge - check
I posit that it is more Roguelike than most (all?) "Modern Roguelikes"
@ArmouredWizard everything and nothing is a rougelike if you try hard enough
btw my favorite rougelike is minecraft
@Moonrider_acme @ArmouredWizard I'm not sure about the original Rogue, but if I recall correctly, most first generation roguelikes had save options. Nethack almost encouraged save scumming.
As far as I'm concerned, not controlling a single character is what keeps Civilisation from being a roguelike.
For a pretty cool exploration of roguelikeness, I highly recommend https://zenorogue.itch.io/isitrl
@ArmouredWizard our most recent podcast episode on Hero’s Hour had a pretty in depth debate about whether 4X games could fall under the thinnest veneers of the roguelite spectrum.
I’d say there’s a very slight overlap with 4X/Civ games like Stellaris or even board games like Eclipse to roguelites, but is in the same level as “well both have graphics, so…”
Rogue games, to me feel like the permadeath/procgen loop are more intertwined than just existing side by side.
@ArmouredWizard Totally agree and would add on that it's maybe more of a failing of overall genre theory and games classification in general.
DOOM clones took on a new definition eventually of FPS (is N64 Goldeneye a doom-clone?) but rogue games have been stuck in a nebulous mechanic-grab-bag like the RPG genre has.
I've been keeping a log of how people think about the genre's definition over time. Some good takes, some really bad: https://github.com/ScottBurger/going_rogue_podcast/wiki/What-is-a-roguelike-database
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