Mastodawn

Igor (BotchedRPR)Sep 21, 2025

The old web was decentralized:

- Newsgroups
- Personal Websites
- Bulletin board
- Email as a service, not a platform
- Internet relay chat (IRC)
- Early blogs

Then corporations arrived with money and lock-in, turning the internet into centralized ad farms (Meta, X, TikTok). Users became consumers, trapped in algorithms, tracking, and enshittification. Revenue more important than people.

The Fediverse is a way back: no ads, no algorithms, no dark patterns. People first. A web worth reclaiming. And open source is the engine of this transformation.

Take back the web. Decentralize again 💪 Bring people to the Fediverse, promote open source and build federated services.

#TakeBackTheWeb #Decentralized #Fediverse #StopBigTech #OpenSource #DeGoogle #UnplugTrump

Wow I had to turn off notifications because my phone wouldn’t stop buzzing 😅

Didn’t expect that post to resonate with so many people. Thanks for all the boosts, favs & thoughtful replies 🙌

The fact that this topic hit a nerve shows: people want a better web. Decentralized, open, people-first. Let’s keep building it together 💪

#Fediverse #TakeBackTheWeb #OpenSource

bbₜᵤₓᵢ Sep 21, 2025

I don't even see advertising as the main problem. If individual Mastodon instances run ads to cover their costs, why not? The problem is the massive centralisation in large corporations, as you already mentioned. The same applies to algorithms. A Mastodon instance with simple algorithms that are described transparently – why not?

@tux True, centralization is the biggest issue.

But I’d argue ads are never neutral. They turn attention into a commodity and create the same profit-driven incentives that broke the old web.

Even small instances would feel pressure to “optimize” people instead of serving communities. That’s capitalism’s logic: growth > people.

The Fediverse gives us a chance to break from that cycle. Community support, donations, co-ops. Models that don’t depend on exploiting attention. A different logic for a different web.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz I did see something that really did look very much like an ad a few minutes ago (I don't know for sure, because of course I didn't click through).

Why was I seeing that, as I didn't follow the account?

I eventually worked out that it was because they'd included *lots* of hashtags in the post, including one that I happened to follow.

I hope we don't start getting lots of advertisers doing that.

Mark Sep 21, 2025

@TimWardCam @Larvitz

Perhaps considering reporting the user/advertiser who is using hashtags as a form of spam (for lack of a better term).

Irina Sep 21, 2025

@TimWardCam @Larvitz It's okay when a person is making something and advertising that (like a jewelry maker I follow, and always boost when she posts new works for sale). But corporations, nopety-nope.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 21, 2025

@irina @Larvitz I have no objection at all to that sort of advertising. It's whether hashtag spamming is going to become a nuisance that I'm musing about.

Gabriela Roßbach Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz And quit the Big Tech Maga supporting platforms Facebook, Instagram, X and LinkedIn.

@GabrielaRossbach Big tech does not have people in mind.

Especially the big US firms are very close to the government and MAGA movement and it's a oligopole, controlled by a handful of tech billionaires that simply want influence and money.

@Larvitz ok, but we're the same people who were, back then, interested in the Internet, while all these people now locked in the algorithms were locked in the traditional media. Trying to get these people to join the Fediverse nowadays is like trying to get your parents to use IRC and read blogs in the 90s.

Dave Winer ☕️Sep 21, 2025

Yes. And bring the writing features of the web which twitter and its offspring threw out.

It’s not just centralization that hurt the web, it’s also that they removed important features.

@davew
Centralization and feature loss went hand in hand. The “platform logic” always simplifies and strips away anything that doesn’t serve engagement metrics. The Fediverse is our chance not just to decentralize, but to rebuild those richer tools for writing and sharing, without the pressure to dumb things down for ads.

Dave Winer ☕️Sep 21, 2025

You left out wikis.

@davew Oh of course. Also Wikis were an important step back in the open web 🙂

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@Larvitz For me wikis have been replaced with git repos containing markdown files ;) Easier to replicate, easier to maintain, open for pull requests. @davew

@jwildeboer @davew

Same here. I also use git repos for notes + snippets (my gists are on Codeberg: https://codeberg.org/Larvitz/gists). They’re great for versioning + collaboration, but I don’t think they can fully replace wikis. Wikis had a super low entry barrier: online editing, WYSIWYG, no git knowledge required. That ease of use made them more inclusive. Ideally, we should have both: git for the power users, wikis for accessibility.

gists

Just some gists in Markdown, I wanted to share

Codeberg.org

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@Larvitz That's mainly a UI (User Interface) topic, in my opinion. It's really simple to have a git repo look and behave like a "normal" wiki (codeberg/forgejo do exactly that with their integrated wiki for repos). My problem with old-school wikis was always the lack of simple interoperability. Not everyone can manage a full-blown mediawiki. And many of the "simple" wikis use their own format to store content. Git with markdown solved that for me. install@[email protected]

@jwildeboer full ack with every single word! 🙂

Dave Winer ☕️Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz @jwildeboer

This is great, I had no idea people used GitHub in place of wikis.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@davew Codeberg, not GitHub ;) My gists are at https://codeberg.org/jwildeboer/gists And with https://mtr.wildeboer.net I have a little tool that converts a mastodon thread to markdown, so I can easily turn my ramblings here into a gist or blog post :) @Larvitz

gists

A collection of short notes on specific little things that are good enough to share but not yet valuable enough for a blog entry. Mostly geeky stuff. Free to copy/paste, no restrictions from my side. Artisanal, hand typed content. No AI.

Codeberg.org

not a martian, honest Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz follow blogs. people are still writing them. comment when you have something to say and leave a link to your own web presence.

use IRC. yeah it's basic, but it runs on anything. if you need a chat with friends, just spin up a simple irc server.

newsgroups are still there, and if you want to have a forum private ngs also are a way to communicate. (although the wider usenet can be difficult to navigate)

@kyonshi
The challenge is visibility + accessibility: Big Tech made people forget they exist, and the learning curve can feel high for newcomers. That’s why I think the Fediverse + FOSS projects are so important: they bridge old-school resilience with modern usability. Best of both worlds.

Thierry Van Kerm Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz let's hope people, users of the fediverse, will understand there is a cost to it and will pay their fair share. Otherwise big corporations will take over again or it will disappear...

42net Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz When are we going to build the Internet 2.0?...one that is actually designed to be private and secure. The Dept. of Defense kept the good one for itself. Can we actually just keep patching this one up forever? Haven't we learned from Windows example?

[nate@social0 ~]$

@Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz What exactly does that look like though? Just another series of protocols that run alongside the old? or a whole new isolated infrastructure?

"The internet" isn't what's broken. As long as you keep to its true meaning, a series of interconnects spanning the globe. What's broken is what we're all doing with it. that's not necessarily a technology problem. that's a people problem.

The fix isn't a new internet. it's awareness that the big tech lock in capitalism fueled walled gardens are bad for us. But that's a huge enough mountain to climb

42net Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Larvitz A ground up approach would be best. All new infrastructure, agreed upon protocols with the flexibility for news ones to interoperate well with existing ones. Of course this means open-source, which can't be monetized very well, so no one would ever spend the amount needed. I never said had a viable solution...I would just like it!😋 ✌️

[nate@social0 ~]$

@Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz I feel like it's the fediverse adoption problem at a whole new scale though. It'll never work. The protocols of the existing web are already open. and founded on open principles. i have trouble seeing why we need a whole new one.

42net Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Larvitz I never said it would work!😜 Let's face it, we're just apes that often think things that aren't true. When things get this complicated, errors occur. It just sucks sometimes and wish it didn't. Have a good one✌️

[nate@social0 ~]$

@Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Ha! Never let things like reality get in the way of your dreams? ;)

42net Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Larvitz Exactly! Wish for better and maybe it will happen. Just don't get your hopes up...that's called a delusion! 😁 Take it easy. Have a good one

Khleedril Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz We need a new one because the old one was built on naive principles, such as there not being any nefarious people in the world and the network not carrying any actually valuable information.

A new one needs to be intrinsically end-to-end encrypted and packet-mixed, #4opens and usable without hindrance or unwanted consequence.

[nate@social0 ~]$

@khleedril @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Why can't we do that on the current infrastructure?

Khleedril Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Because you have to give money to some centralizer to get the effect. And you can't trust that the government agencies haven't got back-doors into those.

For example, which mixing VPN gives you the #4opens?

42net Sep 21, 2025

@khleedril @gangrif @Larvitz See...I just assume our govt agencies have backdoors (thanks compusec 101). It's prudent thinking. I know I'm not doing anything wrong. So, I don't worry about it much. I'm not overly tied to my devices. I haven't used social media (joined mastodon a few days ago) in a 5 or 6 yrs. I find it lacking in humanity

Khleedril Sep 21, 2025

@Nobodyknows789 @gangrif @Larvitz The problem here is that you feel safe, but there are people in parts of the world who cannot feel safe (Americans, ha!), and the system (packet mixing) only works if everyone does it, otherwise the nasty agencies have an immediate handle on those who are evading the intrusion: the ones connecting to mixing services.

42net Sep 21, 2025

@khleedril @gangrif @Larvitz I'm an american...trust me, I don't feel particularly safe at the moment!😬 I try not to be overly worried...that type of stress messes with neurotransmitters, then everything goes wrong. It's ok when govt agencies are run by sane, qualified people (show them tangible evidence and they take that into consideration)...not the case at this time.

[nate@social0 ~]$

@Nobodyknows789 @khleedril @Larvitz Well. at least we can hope that in 3ish years sanity can return. But that may be a stretch. :p

Government spying is a whole different ball of wax. in many cases the government owns the infrastructure or a stake in the one who owns the infrastructure. So unless we're running tin cans and strings across the globe to make our own network (because what else could we afford at that scale?) you're not getting away from that.

Khleedril Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz It can be done with #4opens.

[nate@social0 ~]$

@khleedril @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz what the heck is 4opens?

Khleedril Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Open source, open data, open protocols, open processes. Try searching on the hash tag.

hamish campbell Sep 21, 2025

@khleedril @gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz

We need to start the work with the tools we have, as creating new ones is adding to the mess... what can we build #4opens with the current tools?

A website going back 20 years on this subject https://hamishcampbell.com/

And a hard work path out of the current #tecsith mess, we find our selves in #OMN

#OMN (Open Media Network) – Hamish Campbell an #openweb organic intellectual and technologist

[nate@social0 ~]$

@hamishcampbell @khleedril @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz So 4opens is a concept, not a technology. got it. i'm familiar with the concept (which i hope is obvious). just never heard the term.

Ever heard of the cult of the dead cow's Veilid project?

The idea is a secure but open and anonymous network of nodes running on the existing internet. then you create applications that use the network.

Khleedril Sep 22, 2025

@gangrif @hamishcampbell @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Yes, there's Veilid, and GNUnet to name another. They are movements in the right direction.

hamish campbell Sep 22, 2025

@khleedril @gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz

What do you think of https://dat-ecosystem.org/ as a building block of the #p2p part of the #OMN project?

dat-ecosystem - explore p2p projects

dat-ecosystem is a post-web p2p community of projects - Most projects are self funded. Some of the projects contribute maintainance and development to core pieces of the Dat ecosystem while others create high level applications built on top of p2p protocols.

Khleedril Sep 22, 2025

@hamishcampbell @gangrif @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz

TBH that web site doesn't do them any favours, however clever it is.

[nate@social0 ~]$

@khleedril @hamishcampbell @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz veilid.net? it's not that bad... but it's definitely the problem that plagues many good projects. Good developers do not necessarily make good designers

Khleedril Sep 22, 2025

@gangrif @hamishcampbell @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz Talking about https://dat-ecosystem.org/

dat-ecosystem - explore p2p projects

dat-ecosystem is a post-web p2p community of projects - Most projects are self funded. Some of the projects contribute maintainance and development to core pieces of the Dat ecosystem while others create high level applications built on top of p2p protocols.

[nate@social0 ~]$

@khleedril @hamishcampbell @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz hm.. that web site is actually pretty neat!

hamish campbell Sep 22, 2025

@gangrif @khleedril @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz

The #4opens is simply #FOSS working practices expressed in a social way. So, Q. is FOSS tech? With this in mind, we are highlighting the problem we need to compost.

What do you think of the #OMN project as a tool to build to work on this composting?

https://hamishcampbell.com/?s=composting

Search Results for “composting” – #OMN (Open Media Network)

hamish campbell Sep 22, 2025

@gangrif @khleedril @Nobodyknows789 @Larvitz

Veilid project - there are so meany of these, we need to pick one and build bridges to all the other ones the #geekproblem will force on us, or create new... yes it's a mess, and the path out is messy.

The classic image on this:

42net Sep 21, 2025

@gangrif @khleedril @Larvitz Yeah, between the Defense Dept. and NSA, they either developed the technogy or paid others to. It's hard to get around that! Midterms...man I hope the independents and rational republicans step up. I hate having to hope, though. It should clear, but...🤞

⚯ Michel de Cryptadamus ⚯Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz you can have a (fully customizable, open source) algorithm for your mastodon feed if you want one.

https://universeodon.com/@cryptadamist/114518687892123058

⚯ Michel de Cryptadamus ⚯ (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Ω🪬Ω #FediAlgo, the customizable timeline algorithm / filtering system for your Mastodon feed, is now deployed on Github Pages and can be used from your web browser. * Link: https://michelcrypt4d4mus.github.io/fedialgo_demo_app_foryoufeed/ * Code: https://github.com/michelcrypt4d4mus/fedialgo_demo_app_foryoufeed * Video of FediAlgo in action: https://universeodon.com/@cryptadamist/114395249311910522 #activitypub #algorithm #algorithmicFeed #algorithmicTimeline #Fedi #FediTips #FediTools #Fediverse #Feed #FOSS #Masto #MastoAdmin #Mastodon #mastohelp #MastoJS #nodejs #nod #opensource #SocialWeb #timeline #TL #webdev

Universeodon Social Media

ikuturso 🇪🇺Sep 21, 2025

@cryptadamist @Larvitz that seems really cool and I'm really glad that I'm seeing more and more things like this being built. Phanpy's catch up function is another useful tool. I hope we'll eventually get some things built into Mastodon that the average user can use but keep the full transparency of the algos in use.

⚯ Michel de Cryptadamus ⚯Sep 21, 2025

@ikuturso @Larvitz i have a vague idea to incorporate fedialgo into phanpy. the library part of fedialgo was built in such a way that it should be very easy to do that, i just haven't gotten around to actually trying to do it.

xs4me2 Sep 21, 2025

👍

Trying to avoid all these platforms and be open source whenever I can!

Zven Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz your # does not match your text, google is not Meta /tiktok , gmail wors aa s .... like the search engine, try to declutter, and DeMeta

@Zven DeBigTech 🙂

Google, Meta, TikTok, Microsoft, X, Apple, PayPal etc.

It’s all the same bubble of tech-billionaires, whose only goals are control, power and money. Like a modern aristocracy.

I don’t trust any of them.

hardtech.fts Sep 21, 2025

@Larvitz next step is stop using anything on the web that is owned by a company