RandAlThorBernie Sanders Receives Praise From Left And Right For Charlie Kirk Message: ‘Best Take I’ve Seen’
ThrowawayInTheYear23“Cmon guys, talk it out! Now is not the time to enact political violence against Nazis who are continually stripping you of your rights and freedoms! Actually the fact you haven’t talked to them enough and changed their minds means you’re weak!”
🤨 OK Bernie.
Well, yeah, if you reframe what he actually said into something totally different, obviously it's not going to make a lot of sense.
American people at the local, state, and federal levels, and we hold free elections in which the people decide what they want
Do you think elections are what the people decide? I love Bernie, but he is out of touch now.
Hey, you're right. We do need to urgently work to improve the systems of media and education so that people have some idea of what the fuck is even happening, so that they won't elect open fascists to power and think that they're doing a good thing. We have some urgent problems now that can't really wait for that, of course, since that whole vital apparatus has been deliberately destroyed by the rich people over the course of about the last 50 years. But yes, the elections aren't the only piece. If we could have a Mamdani level event in even one out of every ten elections that happens, that would be fuckin' fantastic, instead of just letting one open socialist get within a hair's breadth of the literal US presidency in 2016 and then giving up because the rich people cheated him out of power. It almost fuckin' worked. Also, gerrymandering, mail in voting, open fraud enabled by Trump and his allies, et cetera. There are a ton of problems that we will never in a million years vote our way out of.
I'm glad you said that. It would have been absolutely nuts if you were agreeing with my parent comment which more or less to me could be interpreted as "Let's bring political assassination by random nuts into the mainstream of the US political spectrum as a way of making change, that'll help and the left will definitely win that game in the end."
But none of that “working on” stuff is or will ever happen. It’s 2025, we should not be backsliding into fascism. Clearly the methods the people are using are failing.
I will be donating to Tyler’s fund just like I did for Luigi—and anyone else who has the stones to stand up against fascists and their cronies.
You should donate (and volunteer) for the people organizing against ICE, or legal defense for people in their crosshairs. That can develop into an actual resistance as things get worse and steadily worse (which they probably will). Donating to encourage random assassination will instead make things exponentially worse, it will basically hand it over to the Charlie Kirks of the world.
I disagree. While I certainly empathize with the people who are being targeted by ice, the immigration topic is not going to be something that sways politics away from fascism. Too many people on the left don’t want illegal immigration. I don’t want illegal immigration. But, I really am disgusted with how it’s being handled now (and in the past too).
The people need to go on the offensive instead of just constantly defending ourselves (in court or otherwise). Now, I don’t mean we should all go shoot people—but those politicians and “influencers” promoting hate and fascism need to feel deep down that they are truly unsafe.
Action can have many forms. But action is not asking them to stop while standing on a street corner holding a sign. We need to make them stop—with escalating intensity that stops when they stop.
1 (please stop) — 10 (death)
“Pick a number that works for you!”
(*Not you, them)
Too many people on the left don’t want illegal immigration. I don’t want illegal immigration. But, I really am disgusted with how it’s being handled now (and in the past too).
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
I personally don't care about "illegal immigration." I've had good friends who came here "illegally," and ones who've experienced some extremely severe consequences because of it. Fuck that. But even regardless of all that, what ICE is currently doing has absolutely 0 to do with enforcing immigration law. They're actually breaking immigration law left and right and violating a bunch of different court orders. If you care about "legal vs illegal," which again in this case I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about, you should be extremely upset against ICE right now, and agitating to stop them.
Now, I don’t mean we should all go shoot people
Good, glad we agree on that part.
but those politicians and “influencers” promoting hate and fascism need to feel deep down that they are truly unsafe.
I don't necessarily disagree. But, there is a way to do that that can escalate into a real revolution of the people that will still maintain a working country. There is also a way to do it that can escalate into AOC and Bernie being the first up on the assassination list, along with Hasanabi, Paul Pelosi, the local mayor if he tries to put in bike lanes, fuckin' whatever.
This particular way of "fighting" for improvement is guaranteed to make things worse.
We need to make them stop—with escalating intensity that stops when they stop.
This part, I completely agree with. Is your impression that shooting Charlie Kirk will make them stop? I think it will make them accelerate. There is no number of Charlie Kirks that you can shoot that will ever make them stop.
They have a lot more money for security than Elizabeth Warren does. There is one side and one side only that will be disproportionately impacted by this.
So what you’re saying is nothing will make them stop.
Well………… #10 it is. Sorry. 🤷♂️don’t care.
Bernie is defusing a highly explosive situation and doing that very well. Good work, I say.
A centrist would agree with him. Bernie has accomplished nothing to stop fascism. More cheap talk, no successes.
Maybe he’s accomplished nothing to stop fascism with this specific quote, but to suggest that he hasn’t for his entire career is a little silly.
I love Bernie. But, we have fascism. So the efforts of anyone fighting fascism this far have failed.
Yeah, we have it now and not at any point in the last 50+ years, in part due to him.
That’s a fair assessment… but his words now are out of date.
“A free and democratic society, which is what America is supposed to be about, depends upon the basic premise that people can speak out, organize, and take part in public life without fear, without worrying that they might be killed, injured, or humiliated for expressing their political views,”
Except that’s not what America is today…
There’s nothing wrong with working towards a better America, it’s what we should all be doing…
But a war has never been won with hugs. And whether we want to be in it or not, we’re in a war against fascism.
I’ve been saying it a lot lately, but it bares repeating:
Work for the world you want to live in, prepare for the world you already live in
The Alt-Right Playbook: You Go High, We Go Low
SchmooWhy include ‘humiliated’ as something people should be protected from for expressing their political views? Fascists should absolutely be humiliated when they spew their bile in public. The first amendment is supposed to protect you from state censorship, not social pressure or ostracization.
I’m not Bernie Sanders…
Question wasn’t directed at you, I was just putting it out there.
Question wasn’t directed at you
I mean, it literally was…
That’s how replies work.
But Id be really surprised if explaining helps.
We use social media a bit differently, there’s no need to be rude. Replies on a public forum are a one-to-many communication. I replied to your comment to establish the context, but the question was directed to no one in particular. It was intended to foster discussion.
jaredWords have repercussions, always have and always will.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.
Boomer Humor DoomergodSince when has America been about a free and democratic society?
Or are we just taking platitudes as fact now?
It’s certainly better than some statements I have seen, but it ignores the commonplace violence inflicted on non-elites every day.
SanctusWhy is everyone pretending this dude’s entire platform wasn’t just vitriolic hate.
Because they’re in on it.
Because the moment they say that, the other side stops listening and dismisses them or worse, decide to target them.
Remember, politicians are people that go out in public spaces and speak to people and they themselves are terrified of the same event happening to them.
It doesnt help though. All it does is justify Charlie’s actions during his life and serves to sanewash him. The move would have been to not defund public education all those decades ago. Doing this now just legitimizes hate speech
That’s the problem with assassinating people. It makes the dead a martyr and helps legitimize their message because supporters get to memorialize the dead, but for opponents it becomes politically difficult and socially inappropriate to criticize. It’s why I always think assassination largely backfires and is not a smart political move. To start a political movement in a democracy, you want to accumulate grievances you can use against the other side, not inflict them so the other side can use them against you.
You have a downvote but you aren’t wrong. Though I do have to say it seems to be largely ineffective using grievances against the current Republican diaspora.
I think that is largely because the democrats are weak and terrible messengers.
Yeah like when Rittenhouse murdered two people, am I right?
Rittenhouse is an idiot, but that wasn’t an assassination. His victims weren’t well known political voices.
It’s so fucking clear he went there when the intent to murder someone.
They canonized him, gave him a speaking tour, turned him into a folk hero.
Did the two Minnesota legislator get turned into heros? Yeah I don’t think so either.
I guarantee you everyone will forget about Kirk dying a couple weeks from now, far from martyrdom. Facts don’t mean anything to these brainwashed morons, one of their “grievances” is the “stolen election” for Christ’s sake. Personally I’ll endure a couple weeks of hypocritical crocodile tears from the right to never hear another racist/transphobic/moronic utterance from that puckered asshole he called a mouth for the rest of my natural life.
shani66Yep. This won’t meaningfully raise the temperature, they will keep doing what they always do. However, this might actually improve things in the long run. He routinely targeted kids for indoctrination, without his influence things will improve.
If he wants to engage the right in any meaningful way, he has little choice because Charlie was made into a martyr.
The best practical outcome may be messages like this and recognition the killing was infighting, not a leftist move. Maybe the broader conservative movement figures out you can’t stir up violent extremism and expect it to consistently point in the direction you would want.
You can both hate Charlie Kirk and everything he stood for and also hate political violence.
Both can be valid stances.
“A free and democratic society, which is what America is supposed to be about, depends upon the basic premise that people can speak out, organize, and take part in public life without fear, without worrying that they might be killed, injured, or humiliated for expressing their political views,”
You can’t debate with “Black people are inferior genetically”. Thats not a good faith argument. It drags the entire country down. Charlie Kirk was not debating or sharing valid views. Democracies do not survive with the populace is uneducated and fed hateful viewpoints. So, no, I cannot denounce his killing. No more than I can denounce the killing of Mussolini or the suicide of Hitler. He caused death and havoc in the exact same way.
You can both denounce Charlie Kirk and everything he stood for and also denounce political violence.
Both can be valid stances.
lennybirdI’m just frustrated that very very few people including Sanders are remarking on that first part. He spread hate speech and misinformation. He and Trump’s rhetoric and actions are what led to this point.
Was so pissed off at Daily Show’s coverage last night when Kosta attacked Warren and the guy from msnbc calling a spade a spade.
The thing is everyone that would ever be inclined to believe that of Charlie Kirk already knows. To call him out posthumously doesn’t tend to away people that listened to him, it makes those people double down.
Ironically, this strategy probably makes the most of his death. People get to see the risks his behavior incurred while also seeing a peaceable path to de-escalation.
Controlled opposition.
We don’t know why this happened so why are we calling this political violence?
We do know that he was a successful political activist, that was his job, and he successfully ran a company on it. He was also shot AT one of his company’s conferences or events, while doing that work; speaking about politics.
It would be a stretch to argue that it wasn’t about politics.
MarshezezzStill technically speculating though
Technically.
😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈Don’t know? Don’t be daft.
We don’t know. It is likely it is political but for all we know he didn’t think Kirk was racist enough.
rivvvverThe state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.
American people at the local, state, and federal levels, and we hold free elections in which the people decide what they want
Sorry Bernie, you’re out of touch. We don’t have elections anymore, we have gerrymandering, and tampering, and intimidation.
Whenever the US makes a mistake of any kind, Sanders is there pointing to morality like a compass.
Bernie has been on the right side of history for half a century. And while he’s technically right here as well, it assumes both sides play using the same rules. We all know one side only likes rules that don’t apply to them.
Yea, I agree with you… But sadly the likely way out of that line of escalatory path is a civil war.
mfed1122Nah, fuck Bernie for this.
A free and democratic society, which is what America is supposed to be about, depends upon the basic premise that people can speak out, organize, and take part in public life without fear, without worrying that they might be killed, injured, or humiliated for expressing their political views,
And who was it that was undermining that? Charlie Kirk.
Political violence, in fact, is political cowardice. It means that you cannot convince people of the correctness of your ideas, and you have to impose them through force.
And what if you can’t convince people of the correctness of your ideas because they don’t care about correctness, they only care about hating you? What then, Bernie? What if they keep pressing forward in complete denial of all logic and facts? I suppose that punching a Klan member is cowardice? I suppose when people rise up against oppressors it is because they are cowards? He’s right that it MAY be cowardice that leads to violence. It may also be absolute obstinate stubbornness of the other side. What do we call that?
this chilling rise in violence has targeted public officials across the political spectrum
Ah, I guess that’s why you, as an official on the political spectrum, are so convinced that it is evil. What a charming coincidence. What about the chilling rise in violence targeting thousands of normal people, perpetuated by Charlie Kirk? If I order my lackeys to execute someone, do we say I’m not a murderer? Do we say I was merely exercising my free speech? What if I constantly depict John Doe down the street as the root of all evil? When someone else kills John Doe, am I truly blameless? Stoking hate to get other people to kill on your behalf, now that’s political cowardice, Bernie.
obsidianfoxxy7870The more Bernie talks the less I respect him. I agree with your points.
vaultdweller013As much as Bernie is a good man he still came up in an age of American politics that were relatively peaceful, at least compared to the 1940s and earlier. This means he has a lot of out of date halcyon views on these types of things.