Mastodawn

sahqon Sep 1

@RickiTarr Has no idea what goes on in the actual workplace...

Wordmark Sep 1

@RickiTarr best example is #German #car #industry ruined by #board of arrogant #aholes #management #corrupt #ceo and #Investors

#Lawyers should be next

Then #bankers

Then #insurance

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC Sep 1

@wordmark @RickiTarr The problem with the German automobile industry is that they have this huge portfolio of patents and other types of intellectual property related to the internal combustion engine and all the mechanical parts needed to turn it into a motorcar. Switching to electric cars makes all that i.p. worthless. An electric car is technically much simpler than one with a piston engine, it needs much fewer parts, it's really horrible if you're a car manufacturer making shitloads of money from machines that burn ancient organisms and turn them into speed.

GreenDotGuy Sep 1

@LordCaramac @wordmark @RickiTarr I was always perplexed by teardowns of electric vehicles where it was obvious that the designers didn't realize they could 'factor out' entire categories of components.

Like, you can probably make this -better- without differentials, a transmission, or a lot of that stuff that moves the hot stuff around if you think from the ground up instead of from the perspective of throwing an electric motor where the engine currently sits.

I'm still waiting for a grocery-getter subcompact that has the electric drive built into each wheel.

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC Sep 1

@DarcMoughty @wordmark @RickiTarr When I look at electric car designs, I always wonder why so few of them go with one motor per wheel, built right into the hub. That way, you can just electronically regulate the rotational speed of each wheel separately, no need for any transmission whatsoever. Add another motor for steering to each wheel, and you can even steer all four wheels individually, which means that you can drive sideways if needed, which should make parking much easier.
I have to admit, however, that I have never owned or driven a car, never had a driver's license, never took a single driving lesson. I don't like cars, and I have so far managed to get along without driving.

jack Sep 1

@LordCaramac @DarcMoughty @wordmark @RickiTarr I think it'd shake the motor to pieces and/or damage the road, depending on how heavy it gets. That's the usual reason to avoid "unsprung weight". the moving bouncing bits attached to the suspension should be as light as possible

otoh some bikes have hub motors so it'd be perfectly feasible (technically) to have a more bike-derived urban grocerygetter with hub motor. e-quadricycle perhaps

Tim Aidley Sep 1

@jackeric @LordCaramac @DarcMoughty @wordmark @RickiTarr I think this is right - I saw a YouTube video a few months back by a car company (perhaps Telo?) explaining why they didn't go with hub motors, and unsprung weight was the main reason.

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC Sep 1

@planettimmy @jackeric @DarcMoughty @wordmark @RickiTarr Well, a car that's sufficiently light, small, compact, should be able to work with hub motors. I'm thinking of something like Japanese kei cars or like the small cars European automobile companies used to make before everything started to get bigger and bigger. With four motors, I don't think any single one of those motors would have to be any more powerful than 6kW, bringing the entire car up to 24kW (roughly 32HP), which should be sufficient for a small compact car, it's all the original VW Beetle had.

Wordmark Sep 2

@LordCaramac @planettimmy @jackeric @DarcMoughty @RickiTarr #Rimac imho has a #eMotor per wheel its a truly electric rocket but not sure if it likes rain XD

The damn thing goes over 400 km/h https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOcp3-Ik3G4

Rimac Nevera R Destroys 24 World Records | 0-400-0 in 25.79s!

YouTube

Wordmark Sep 2

@LordCaramac @DarcMoughty @RickiTarr there are some #bmw sponsored startups trying that again but it aint easy #deepdrive https://insideevs.de/news/726961/bmw-deepdrive-doppelrotor-elektromotor-test/

BMW und Startup-Firma DeepDrive testen Doppelrotor-Motor

Normale E-Motoren haben einen Stator und innenliegenden Rotor. Das Münchner Startup DeepDrive jedoch kombiniert einen Stator mit 2 Rotoren.

InsideEVs Deutschland

David J. Atkinson Sep 1

@LordCaramac @wordmark @RickiTarr Truth. I worked for such a German company. They tried to find a niche in electric vehicles, and there are some, but the real cash cow for that company was tires. Plus, they can always simply buy companies that are good at electric vehicles components if the need to. They typically bought 50 to 100 companies a year to get the intellectual property they wanted.

Bill Sep 1

@wordmark @RickiTarr

Shakespeare said the lawyers should be first.

Wordmark Sep 1

@RickiTarr depends on the #eMotor high torque low RPM 2021 #Axialflux motors – The new hope – lower RPM more torque less weight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EEVPVNJHjM

Still needs #transmission all other high RPM #eMotor not

Axial flux motors - The new hope

YouTube

Wordmark Sep 1

@RickiTarr i know its a fucked up thing to say but given the state of #corruption most #companies and #nations would be better of beeing governed by an unbiased aka objective (i know its almost impossible given bias in the data wrong training data) #ai than #humans :D OK some #competent #human entities need to check #AI is not giving crazy orders

While #golem is great it is ridiculous there is no #english #language button https://www.golem.de/news/ai-2027-in-ein-paar-jahren-koennte-es-vorbei-sein-2509-199140-2.html

AI 2027: In ein paar Jahren könnte es vorbei sein - Golem.de

Eine Gruppe Experten sagt bis 2030 das "wahrscheinliche" Ende der Menschheit durch KI voraus. Und jetzt?

Golem.de

Wordmark Sep 2

@RickiTarr #army of #agi might enslave #mankind https://youtu.be/V7Q3DJ9V5CQ?t=1237 #ai #2027 #hype?

Why the AI Race Ends in Disaster (with Daniel Kokotajlo)

YouTube

mike Sep 1

@RickiTarr

Sudden thought. Maybe this has already happened... How would we tell the difference? Hmm, probably better quality management.

@RickiTarr

I seem to be the only person on Mastodon who finds AI useful.

@tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr I find it useful, but not nearly as useful as it's hyped to be... which makes me wonder about its long-term viability. Also, whenever I try to discuss this, I get "but one day, it'll be able to do that!" as if it's inevitable.

@eyrea @RickiTarr

My fucking rice maker has AI in it.

@tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr

wtf? A rice maker is a wonderfully elegant, simple, reliable machine.

Operator closes circuit. Resistor creates heat. When temperature reaches 100C break circuit. Perfect rice ensues.

What possible need is there for more? What possible utility is there for “AI”? At which stage in that simple process do we benefit from inserting a probabilistic bullshit machine?

Yes, I recognize that there are a few applications that have some utility - I’m a Luddite not a tech hater - but we’re boiling off our rivers and aquifers to cool processing centres so we can stick “AI” into a *rice cooker*?

Fuck that.

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr Maybe it's a marketing thing, like in the 90s when lots of rice cookers were marketed as using "fuzzy logic", because that was the buzzy technical thing at the time.

@RickiTarr @eyrea @tuban_muzuru

Of course it’s a marketing thing: “AI” is a giant, useless, harmful marketing bubble just itching to burst. But meanwhile the purveyors of “AI” everything are betting it all on making back their investment ten-fold if they can just inflate the bubble a little further before it bursts. The writing is on the wall, which is why the rush is on to insert it everywhere, and then when it all goes to hell, they’ll run off with their licensing fees to their private islands.

PrinceOfDenmark Sep 1

@DavidM_yeg @RickiTarr @eyrea @tuban_muzuru Mentioned this in another discussion:

Star Wars and other 70s & 80s movies largely taught me to partner with and respect the robots, and to also understand how some can be destructive. Just like biological people. Not sure if the IRL versions today will ever be people. But predisposed to think they can be partners.

My 15-yo reminds me to thank Claude after interactions, so clearly that ethic got passed on! 😎

PrinceOfDenmark Sep 1

@DavidM_yeg @RickiTarr @eyrea @tuban_muzuru But completely share your suspicion of the people funding all this…

@eyrea @DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr

Chewie Sep 1

Pretty much.
You can get AI Kettles: https://mammut.gogreenit.net/@chewie/114825298539400262

And even a PoE switch with an AI button:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/keepLiNK-Port-PoE-1000Mbps-Unmanaged/dp/B0C5WMMSYT

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr AI means a lot of different things under different circumstances. The thing most people today mean is an LLM. That's the "boiling off our rivers" you're talking about. The rice cooker does not have an LLM-based AI in it.

@eyrea @RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru @mweiss

“AI means a lot of different things under different circumstances.”

Yeah, that’s part of the problem (or opportunity for VC capitalists), and as far as I can see all its commercial uses are unfounded misleading hype.

What kind of ‘intelligence’ do you think might actually be embedded in a rice cooker?

@eyrea @RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru

@DavidM_yeg @eyrea @RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru really basic stuff. Some types of rice benefit from longer or shorter times around that temperature set point. Or faster or slower cooking via different temperatures.

So the cooker independently figures out what kind of rice you have and how you want it cooked and changes the heat output and temp cutoff for you?

Or … is it simply a fancy cooker that can vary heat and temp cutoff according to a series of preset options that the operator can choose? In which case that’s not “AI” either, just as choosing a different spray pattern on the end of my garden hose isn’t “AI”.

@DavidM_yeg @eyrea @RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru pretty much, near as I can tell

hex Sep 1

@DavidM_yeg @eyrea @RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru @mweiss it's literally just a PID. A PID is technically AI, in the simplest possible sense so engineering can make marketing STFU by just saying, "yeah, we put AI in it years ago."

@tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr

OK, slight tangent, but I actually can think of one way to improve a rice cooker:

Somewhere on the bottom, behind a screwed shut panel, add an adjustment screw to change the shut-off temperature. Living at 2,200 ft (670m), the boiling point of water is more like 98C so our cooker always creates just a hint of a slightly browned skin at the bottom.

But this most emphatically does not require “AI”

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr That's a great idea. You could also adjust it the other way, if you usually wanted to make Persian-style rice with a more emphasised toasted crust.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 1

@eyrea @DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru I haven't scrolled down fair enough to understand why we are talking about rice now, but sign me up for the tahdig

Kinene⭐🐻Sep 1

@RickiTarr @eyrea @DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru Tahdig is wonderful. I bought a Persian rice cooker specifically for cooking Basmati rice.

edit- It uses a timer, rather than a temperature sensor. No AI needed, just turn the knob.

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr the thermostat does generally have an adjustment.

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr https://youtu.be/RSTNhvDGbYI?si=vLdh-B_POKb9pp2z

Old-fashioned rice cookers are extremely clever

YouTube

@DavidM_yeg @tuban_muzuru @eyrea @RickiTarr here's the one from a big rice cooker I had for repairs

@eyrea @tuban_muzuru @idnorton @RickiTarr

Hmm… I might open mine up and see if there’s something similar down there.

Alas, mine does not appear to have such a capacity

@RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru @eyrea

@DavidM_yeg Booo :(

Guess it's cheaper to make them without.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 1

@eyrea @tuban_muzuru A lot of the issues for me is the lack of regulation and standards involved in it, and the absolutely horrifying amount of energy and water it takes to run it.

@RickiTarr @tuban_muzuru The energy usage really bothers me, but I work in IT, so 🤷🏻‍♀️ I need to know about it and how to use it.

But yeah the whole thing needs a serious reality check.

IMHO, its main niche is making up for the collaboration we need more of.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 1

@eyrea @tuban_muzuru I think it's a part of the future no matter what anyone does, but it just seems to come with the caveat of if we can survive it. It just feels like they are thrusting it on everyone while it's still in development phases, deeply inefficient and without safeguards.

@RickiTarr @eyrea

Koomey's Law observes that the energy required to perform a set number of calculations has been cut in half roughly every 2.6 years.

We have GPUs now. Zillions of massively parallel processors for rendering video. That makes them good for calculating AI weights.

So now we're moving to Tensor Processing Units and massive ASIC custom silicon.

Intel has Loihi, which only powers up when a spike is processed - reduces power consumption greatly.

@RickiTarr @eyrea

2/2

We're learning a lot from the brain's architecture. A big ol' model's complexity can be pruned, first by using smaller integers where it can, but dead ends are subject to removal.

Another thing we're learning from the brain, create specialist modules. The AI of today is redolent of the mainframes of old.

As for regulation, Congress has become a congregation of street whores.

This whole computing domain is in its infancy.

@tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr Well, good job Congress doesn't control the whole world, eh?

In the same way that the rest of the world has settled on metric without the US, it may well be the rest of the world settles on AI standards first.

Michael Westergaard Sep 1

Reducing costs/energy savings does not reduce overall consumption. It lowers the barrier to entry, increasing demand and making the total use the same as or higher than before. AI will never be more efficient (until the bubble bursts).

I hearken back to the 1980s when I was consulting at a Big Insurance Company. They had a big cooling pond with swans, to cool their mainframes.

Much talk at the time of Landauer Limit.

Tell me what I got wrong here.

Michael Westergaard Sep 1

In 1985, there was around 30M-50M computers worldwide, and today there is an estimated 2B, 40+ times more.

While some computers in 1985 may have been mainframes, a lot were Commodore 64s or Apple IIs, so it's unlikely the average power consumption was over 40 times more to outweigh the factor 40 in numbers.

Not even counting that a typical computer around 2000 had a 200W-300W PSU while a typical (desktop) computer today has a 500-1000W PSU, and ignoring all mobile devices even though they are more used and way more powerful than a super computer in 1985.

When things are more efficient and cheaper, more people buy them. Typically in numbers that make the overall cost/consumption to up, not down, when things improve.

When things are more efficient, they draw less current. That's the point here.

I am told by various hysterical Chicken Little types how training an AI model is terrible for the environment - where were they when Chinese farmers were - and still are - mining bitcoin with all that power from Three Gorges Dam?

I've tried to make my point, answering Ricki's concern about energy and water, saying everyone's working on the problem and drastic improvements are coming.

Michael Westergaard Sep 1

It does not matter they draw less power when there are more of them.

Pretending I didn't notice your blatant attempt at whataboutism, I also complained about bitcoin wasting energy – and have for a decade now. You're using bitcoiners' fundamentally flawed argument that more efficient miners will solve the energy consumption: bitcoin has built in anti-efficiency so more energy efficient bitcoin mining will just lead to more bitcoin mining, not using less energy.

AI is exactly the same: while it might be more efficient to train per neuron or parameter (or other largely irrelevant parameters that grow faster than efficiency improvements), each subsequent model has taken more energy to train, disregarding theoretical and technical improvements to the process. There is absolutely no reason to expect it would be different in the future, and history has told us it is not.

Bitcoiners btw do the same thing you do: talk about their scam-tokens in future tense as if it is the present. They will be so great very shortly, so we might as well pretend they are great now.

You'll do me the courtesy of paying attention - what is the Landauer Limit?

And following that, why would I make that point?

[incredulous] You waded in here and didn't realize the Landauer Limit says pretty much everything you've said already?

Closed mouths gather no feet. When a process gets expensive, the boys and girls in Engineering get to work building a better process - which is immediately subsumed into the new more-efficient process. And on it goes ad infinitum.

@tuban_muzuru @michael @RickiTarr @eyrea

Violet Madder Sep 2

The boys and girls in engineering right now are so busy working for the short-term profits demanded by their brutally competing authoritarian sugar daddies that they have stopped thinking ahead.

An awful lot of people actually still believe that at some point someone in this giant game of planetary chicken is going to do the sensible thing and hit the brakes and act to prevent the total apocalyptic collapse of our biosphere and civilization-- but no. No, that is an incredibly fucking naive and dangerous idea.

The people in charge right now don't care about anything but winning, even if that means all they win is the nicest possible throne on the nicest possible yacht from which to rule a seared landscape of steaming rubble heaped with skulls.

Michael Westergaard Sep 2

The people in charge CANNOT bail out now. That would mean writing off the giant investments. As long as the ball keeps rolling, the billions spent remain "an investment in the future," but the second they officially realize that a fancy T9 dictionary is really, really cool, yet ultimately not that useful and probably not the golden goose it was presented as, it is a "loss."

I did read that one company seemingly has a mostly sensible reaction to the hype. CEO of Apple, Tim Cook, has rejected buying several grifting companies (Tesla and Netflix) despite it being suggested by other higher ups, and SVP of Software Engineering Craig Federighi is hesitant to paying billions for AI grifters (Perplexity and Anthropic). macrumors.com/2025/08/26/apple-discussed-buying-mistral-ai-and-perplexity/

Report: Apple Discussed Buying Mistral AI and Perplexity

Apple executives have reportedly discussed acquiring Mistral AI and Perplexity, The Information reports. Services chief Eddy Cue is apparently the...

MacRumors

@RickiTarr @eyrea @tuban_muzuru it doesn't have to use anywhere near that much water. It uses that much water because we as a society underprice water for a bunch of complex reasons.

@mweiss @RickiTarr @eyrea

Heh. Quite right. I grew up on the southern edge of the Sahara.

The hardest work in the world is done by women: hauling water out of a well, then carrying it home.

@eyrea @tuban_muzuru @RickiTarr

Legit_Spaghetti Sep 1

I find it useful, but not nearly as useful as it's hyped to be

That's the experience in a nutshell: the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I've used different A.I. tools, and my takeaway is that the output (copy, art, code) isn't very good or useful. It's okay if you want to generate some quick bullshit, but that's not worth burning the planet and mass-exploiting workers in the developing world.

There's currently no ethical use case for A.I. technology.