Peter Gleick
Weird how the fossil fuel industry claims it's renewables that are expensive.
My solar panels paid for themselves in 7 years (instead of the predicted 13) and our solar electricity is free now. And it runs our car.
Jul 18, 2025 at 5:40pmWeb
Show threadPeter GleickJul 18, 2025
Also, of course, the price of fossil fuels has never included their full true cost: climate change, military expenses to protect Middle East oil partners, health effects of pollution, contamination of groundwater by fracking, ad infinitum.
Show threadPaul Wermer, CC BY-NC-SA 4.0Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick
20-ish years ago someone(s) calculated cost of gasoline including (for lack of a better term) geopolitical expenses. Was on the order of $10/ gal. (Digging into old memories, so no exact data) Price at the pump was well under $3 at the time.
Show threadyousedJul 18, 2025

@PaulWermer @petergleick
I read that pdf (cannot find it now). At the time it was written, gasoline was aound us$1.50, and their broad estimate said the real cost would be between $5 and $15, depending on which/how you count subsidies/externalities.

So figure 3x ~ 10x what you see.

Show thread@bmoe has movedJul 18, 2025
@petergleick and direct subsidies! Why on Earth are we still subsidizing these things?
Show threadZimmieJul 18, 2025

@petergleick Photovoltaic solar cost also generally doesn’t include contamination of groundwater. When the panels break (e.g, from hail), the heavy metals contaminate the landfills where they end up.

Photovoltaic solar is nowhere near as bad as coal, oil, or methane, of course. It’s just weird how people always leave off the toxic waste it produces.

Show threadBinksJul 18, 2025
@bob_zim @petergleick What heavy metals? Solar panels are 99%+ plastic and glass. A tiny fraction of them (~2%) contain a tiny amount of cadmium and such, but that's not gonna be found at all in a residential panel. Where are you getting your "solar panels are full of toxic waste!" nonsense from?
Show threadmau 🏳️‍🌈#EndFossilFuelsJul 18, 2025

@bob_zim @petergleick Which heavy metals?

Most solar panels contain only trace amounts of lead for some connections, and we run TCLP tests on them to certify that they don't leach.

Cadmium Telluride is a tiny fraction of the market, and the only producer (also, the only solar company in the USA) has a comprehensive recycling program.

https://www.usvschools.org/Downloads/TCLP%20Results%20-%20LONGi%20Module%20-%20As%20delivered%20(1).pdf

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/cen-09615-cover2

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2203640

Show threadMisuse CaseJul 18, 2025
@bob_zim @petergleick There seems to be a widespread misconception out there that solar panels are conjured in and out of existence by a magic fairy instead of being…actual physical things that require mineral extraction, manufacture, and disposal.
Show threadLot⁴⁹Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick Privatize the profit/Make the risk public. Twas ever thus.
Show threadBruce Heerssen Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick
Weird. Why would they lie? 🙃
Show threadEstarriol, Terrorist DragonJul 18, 2025
@petergleick and you no longer have those day to day costs. Which is why fossil fuel industry and the city absolutely hate it and spend billions trying to stop it.
Show threadTimo HetzelJul 18, 2025
@petergleick @briankrebs expecting break even on tiny balcony solar systems in Europe after 2 years, 4 max. Low barrier to entry (couple of hundred €), pays back quick.
Show threadTimo HetzelJul 18, 2025
@petergleick @briankrebs or this guy with a solar fence for 5000€, saving around 1000€/year https://twitter.com/helmpeter/status/1946169347828765084?s=46
Peter Helm 🇩🇪 🇺🇦 (@HelmPeter) on X

Hier hatte ich den bekannten Thread zu meinem Solar PV-Zaun gepostet. Inzwischen sind fast 1,5 Jahre vergangen – und wie versprochen: Jetzt gibt’s die Daten! Ein informativer Thread zum Solarzaun 1/11🧵 https://t.co/kG4EXTiTg5

X (formerly Twitter)
Show threadN3r0Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick you ignored the Mains net.
Show threadnivsJul 18, 2025
@petergleick @briankrebs My home solar is on track for 7-8 year payback as well 👍🏻
Show threadScott LettJul 18, 2025
@petergleick would you mind sharing how much you paid, say per kilowatt?
Show threadCyJul 18, 2025
Keeping in mind you'll have to pay more to recycle the panels, and lots of fossil fuels were burned to manufacture them. Solar is pretty cool.
Show threadBinksJul 18, 2025
@petergleick Yep, solar is so absurdly expensive...that my local power company has to charge an extra fee to anyone who uses them to discourage their use. And they're /still/ cheaper in the long run than buying electricity. But sure, renewables are totally expensive *sigh*
Show threadIvi ChocJul 18, 2025
@petergleick Off-grid solar here 🙋‍♀️ Solar system ~ €6000, independence = priceless 😎
Show threadyertleJul 18, 2025
@petergleick @briankrebs also our solar panels degrade slower than the rise of energy costs
Show threaddrdr6262Jul 18, 2025

@petergleick

I’ve just started along this solar panels journey in un-sunny Scotland. Their performance so far has been well beyond expectations. I’ve not used grid energy to charge the car since March. I’m pretty sure it’ll pay for itself long before the predicted 11 years.

Show threadAIienatedJul 18, 2025
@petergleick By using solar you are depriving the fossil fuel industries of their extraction and exploitation based profits… that’s what is expensive
Show threada fish named dog ✡️♾️Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick I live in Pittsburgh and I saw a sign like ENERGY DOMINANCE *IS* NATIONAL SECURITY paid for by something something petroleum or something and I really want to erect a sign facing it like THE US HAS WAY MORE SOLAR POTENTIAL AND THAT DOESN'T POISON THE ENVIRONMENT or something
Show threadIncredibishJul 18, 2025
@petergleick
Same. Our panels recouped their investment after seven years and twelve years after fitting them I am still getting FIT payments for another eight years.
Show threadDan RileyJul 18, 2025

@petergleick The fossil fuel industry is terrified that, with the right incentives, the transition to renewables and away from petrol will be actually be pretty cheap (especially accounting for health externalities). So they are trying very hard to scare people away from trying at all, even objecting to fairly modest changes that make economic sense regardless of global warming costs.

As with many programs they oppose, they're scared that people will actually like the result if they try it.

Show threadpjrmJul 18, 2025
@petergleick I read this quite often (usually put out by conservative politicians (on behalf of the fossil fuel industry. Any thinking person knows it is incorrect but perhaps that is the problem.
Show threadXCMJul 18, 2025
@petergleick
That’s good to know. I’d love to have panels too.
But I am not totally convinced by the numbers.
I hear that the panel lifespan is ~25 years.
Average electricity savings in 25 years are around £14-17k if I understand correctly, without considering inverter replacement and assuming no degradation.
~£6k invested elsewhere with 5% real return: ~20k after 25 years. Which beats average electricity savings and eclipses them if panels are financed.
Show threadXCMJul 18, 2025
@petergleick
Also, I might be paranoid, but all this marketing from energy suppliers tells me that panels are a great way to shift infrastructure burden on homeowners, while reducing peak pressure on the grid. With no investment on their end. It’s effectively a privatised infrastructure expansion. No wonder they push so hard. Or am I really being paranoid 😬
Show threadHeliographJul 19, 2025
@petergleick weird isn't the right word Peter 😬💩 and good on you for switching so early 👏
Show threadCara BruarJul 19, 2025
@Heliograph @petergleick ours paid for itself in 8 years but that included replacing the inverter because the first one (2015) was flaky. We still get big bills mostly for heating and the other person in the house who has a bread making hobby therefore lots of oven heating.
Show threadHeliographJul 19, 2025
@CaraBruar would you consider a home battery? @petergleick
Show threadCara BruarJul 19, 2025
@Heliograph @petergleick we discussed it but there are technical issues around location, also the way things are going we would pay for it and then some freeloading parasite would require it to be part of their vpp so they could profit from it. If it could be part of an inalienable nonprofit venture, definitely, but we are tired of being exploited. Energy and insurance companies, I see you.
Show threadHeliographJul 19, 2025
@CaraBruar I see! Maybe a (group of) smaller portable stations could do the trick? but yes hearing ya... @petergleick
Show threadMark Malowany 🇨🇦Jul 19, 2025
@petergleick New panels here. I went in expecting 13 year payback. I don’t have a year of data yet but for sure it will be under 10, quite possibly in the 6-7 year range depending on how winter plays out. Very pleased so far.
Show threadKevin Karhan Jul 19, 2025
@petergleick #Funfact: Without #MeritOrder instead of #OfferAndDemand pricing, there would be no #MinimumPricing for #Electricity in #Germany and instead all #FossilGuels would go out of business as they can't compete with #renewables...
Show threadJörg SeidelJul 19, 2025
@petergleick
It's hard to convince someone that is paid not to understand you.
Show thread@iveylineJul 19, 2025
@petergleick We're on track to achieve a similar outcome. Haven't paid a cent for power for 5 years and have built up a large credit with our utility. Solar power is cheap and briĺliant.
Show threadcoldclimateJul 19, 2025
@petergleick I finally bit the bullet and installed a load of solar when I realised I could afford to do it and not care about the payback time. We redid out bathroom and didn't worry about the payback time. I privileged POV I realised, but it was only when the penny dropped that I did it
Show threadCysio ​Jul 19, 2025
@petergleick "renewables are expensive" I say as gas prices are a major electoral talking point in my country
Show threadFonantJul 19, 2025

@petergleick Same here. We extended our mortgage for seven years to provide the capital. All paid off and lots of free electricity for 20 years or so.

We're in the UK.

Show threadToni AittoniemiJul 19, 2025
@petergleick The world does not run on facts. It runs on stories people tell about it..
Show threadMārtiņš BruņenieksJul 21, 2025
@petergleick Even for me, living in apartment in UNESCO protected area where panels can not be installed, the variable market price is low (0-5 € cents + 4 cents for infrastructure/kWh) all summer due to all these commercial solar parks.