Peter GleickJul 18, 2025
Weird how the fossil fuel industry claims it's renewables that are expensive.
My solar panels paid for themselves in 7 years (instead of the predicted 13) and our solar electricity is free now. And it runs our car.
Show threadPeter Gleick
Also, of course, the price of fossil fuels has never included their full true cost: climate change, military expenses to protect Middle East oil partners, health effects of pollution, contamination of groundwater by fracking, ad infinitum.
Jul 18, 2025 at 6:23pmWeb
Show threadPaul Wermer, CC BY-NC-SA 4.0Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick
20-ish years ago someone(s) calculated cost of gasoline including (for lack of a better term) geopolitical expenses. Was on the order of $10/ gal. (Digging into old memories, so no exact data) Price at the pump was well under $3 at the time.
Show threadyousedJul 18, 2025

@PaulWermer @petergleick
I read that pdf (cannot find it now). At the time it was written, gasoline was aound us$1.50, and their broad estimate said the real cost would be between $5 and $15, depending on which/how you count subsidies/externalities.

So figure 3x ~ 10x what you see.

Show thread@bmoe has movedJul 18, 2025
@petergleick and direct subsidies! Why on Earth are we still subsidizing these things?
Show threadZimmieJul 18, 2025

@petergleick Photovoltaic solar cost also generally doesn’t include contamination of groundwater. When the panels break (e.g, from hail), the heavy metals contaminate the landfills where they end up.

Photovoltaic solar is nowhere near as bad as coal, oil, or methane, of course. It’s just weird how people always leave off the toxic waste it produces.

Show threadBinksJul 18, 2025
@bob_zim @petergleick What heavy metals? Solar panels are 99%+ plastic and glass. A tiny fraction of them (~2%) contain a tiny amount of cadmium and such, but that's not gonna be found at all in a residential panel. Where are you getting your "solar panels are full of toxic waste!" nonsense from?
Show threadmau 🏳️‍🌈#EndFossilFuelsJul 18, 2025

@bob_zim @petergleick Which heavy metals?

Most solar panels contain only trace amounts of lead for some connections, and we run TCLP tests on them to certify that they don't leach.

Cadmium Telluride is a tiny fraction of the market, and the only producer (also, the only solar company in the USA) has a comprehensive recycling program.

https://www.usvschools.org/Downloads/TCLP%20Results%20-%20LONGi%20Module%20-%20As%20delivered%20(1).pdf

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/cen-09615-cover2

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2203640

Show threadMisuse CaseJul 18, 2025
@bob_zim @petergleick There seems to be a widespread misconception out there that solar panels are conjured in and out of existence by a magic fairy instead of being…actual physical things that require mineral extraction, manufacture, and disposal.
Show threadLot⁴⁹Jul 18, 2025
@petergleick Privatize the profit/Make the risk public. Twas ever thus.