Mastodawn

@skuebeck @Linkshaender This probably shouldn't be posted on Mastodon, where basically everyone is already (painfully) aware of Microsofts shenanigans, but instead be broadcasted on every major news outlet!

Armin Hanisch Jul 16

@HendrikPfaff @skuebeck That’s no news, everyone knows that snd they still use services from MS.

@Linkshaender @skuebeck It's no news to _us_, because everyone in our tiny tech-bubble installed linux when they were twelve...
If you go ask the average employer, (grand)parent, student, etc. they have no clue of the amount of personal data harvested by big tech and simply can not grasp its implications (i.e. they don't care).

Armin Hanisch Jul 16

@HendrikPfaff @skuebeck Just as I wrote. They don’t care.

@Linkshaender @skuebeck And they will continue to, because meaningful discussions will never leave the tech echo chambers of self-important nerds...

Rozenn

@HendrikPfaff @Linkshaender @skuebeck
As long as it doesn't directly impact them, they won't care.

However, I switched my father to mint a few months ago after years of trying to convince my parents that windows was not good anymore. He loved it. So much simpler, less cluttered and less annoying. I let a friend use my computer for a while and my fedora+gnome setup and the ease of use convinced them to try it on their own computer.

People care about convenience. Microsoft and Google are evil, yes, but just as the frog being plunged in a cold water and slowly boiled, people have also not realized how *inconvenient* they have become over time. They also think there is no practical alternative so they are willing to put up with a lot of crap and a lot of potentially dangerous stuff because it's better than nothing, because they don't really think there is anything else they can do.

We won't convince them to leave by telling them how GAFAM are evil, we will convince them by nagging them with better alternatives. Giant companies have so much marketing money they are practically everywhere, we need to make better alternatives more visible and we need to make them look like a valid choice and not something that only tech people and nerds can use.

https://x.com/wire/status/1944851027381117019

Microsoft marketing: “Your data stays in Europe.”

Microsoft’s Legal Director (under oath, in French Parliament): “No, I cannot guarantee that.”

Still think Microsoft Teams is a sovereign solution?

Credit @ponceto91 for the meme

Thx @Linkshaender!

#microsoft #DataPrivacy #DigitalSovereignty #europe

https://www.itmagazine.ch/artikel/85137/Unter_Eid_Microsoft_kann_Schutz_vor_Cloud_Act_nicht_garantieren.html

Sebastian Kübeck Jul 19

@Linkshaender

The Swiss IT Magazine is catching up

"Microsoft says it is creating a sovereign cloud for Europe to address data protection concerns on the old continent. However, a Microsoft executive has now confirmed under oath: It is impossible to guarantee that no data will be shared with US authorities."

Unter Eid: Microsoft kann Schutz vor Cloud Act nicht garantieren

Microsoft schafft laut eigener Aussage eine souveräne Cloud für Europa, um die Datenschutzbedenken auf dem alten Kontinent zu adressieren. Ein Microsoft-Manager hat nun aber unter Eid bestätigt: Eine Garantie, dass keine Daten an US-Behörden weiteregegeben werden, ist nicht möglich.

Swiss IT Media GmbH

https://www.heise.de/news/Nicht-souveraen-Microsoft-kann-Sicherheit-von-EU-Daten-nicht-garantieren-10494684.html

Sebastian Kübeck Jul 21

@Linkshaender

From Heise Online:

No guarantees: Microsoft must transfer EU data to the USA

"Hyperscalers such as Amazon are setting up new subsidiaries in Europe that promise independence from the US parent company.

Technically, a transfer of data is not possible at all, is the promise of AWS. Microsoft, on the other hand, wants to install the cloud infrastructure directly at the customer's site so that services such as M365 remain completely under their control.

The maintenance of the systems will continue to be carried out by Microsoft, but by local employees. However, it is questionable how successful these promises of sovereignty are: Providers such as Nextcloud have been experiencing significantly higher demand since the beginning of the year."

Keine Garantien: Microsoft muss EU-Daten an USA übermitteln

In einer Anhörung musste der Chefjustiziar von Microsoft France zugeben: Es gibt keine Garantie, dass EU-Daten vor einer Übermittlung in die USA sicher sind.

heise online

Florian Norbisrath Jul 16

@skuebeck i guess i missed out about this news, do you have ressources for the statement?

@greyscaleapple

Thx. See updated post.

Armin Hanisch Jul 16

@skuebeck @koehntopp A source would have been nice instead of just pasting an X post and a funny meme. It’s really not that hard. 🙄

The statement was made by Anton Carniaux of MS France and can be read at page 23 of https://www.senat.fr/fileadmin/cru-1750816532/Structures_temporaires/commissions_d_enquete/CE_Commande_publique/r24-830-11.pdf?trk=comments_comments-list_comment-text

@Linkshaender @koehntopp

Don't complain, contribute! Thx anyway!

Walter van Holst Jul 17

@Linkshaender @skuebeck @koehntopp That is also a quote and it is not clear from the Senate document when and where it was said. Do we have a date and a name of the committee in which it was said? This is relevant to my interests....

Erik Ableson Jul 16

@skuebeck @Linkshaender I'm wading through the rest of the interviews in that session and it makes for some fascinating reading

__Miguel_Jul 16

@skuebeck I think I should add that the complete translation of what was asked was not just "all data from French people stays in Europe", but something along the lines of "Can you guarantee the data from French citizens will never be handed over to foreign authorities without French authorities agreeing to it?".

The answer to that question MUST be "no", because regardless of where MS's data is, they're bound by the draconian US laws, at least one of which allows judges to request ANY data from ANYONE under US jurisdiction, while simultaneously blocking them from even telling anyone else they even received such a request, let alone its contents, or the data that was shared.

Still a VERY valid reason to drop MS like a bad habit, though, because while the data might stay in the EU, the US can still get it regardless.

David Jul 17

@nanianmichaels @skuebeck You're right that geographic data residency on its own is insufficient, and there is a potential solution to this: The EU would need to require the formation of a EU-headquartered company—say, Microsoft Europe—which is not a subsidiary of Microsoft, which has only EU citizen and resident officers and controlling owners, and which is bound to Microsoft [US] through contracts, shared source code, irrevocably license agreements, and cryptographic keys, such that Microsoft [US] has no legal, organizational, or technological means to cause Microsoft Europe to violate EU or member state law.

A similar principle could require a Google Europe, or a Microsoft Canada, with the same constraints. The non-US company can be a minimal structure—just enough to administer the hardware—but its existence, with a sufficiently separated legal and technical structures, provides a check against the US government trying to throw its weight around outside its own jurisdiction.

Antonio J. Delgado❤️🧡💛💚💙💜Jul 16

@skuebeck @Linkshaender This is from 2016/2017 and the link can't be reached
UPDATE: Nop, the doc posted by @joosteto is from 2025. It might be that the statement was made earlier because I found some articles from 2016/2017

@adelgado @skuebeck @Linkshaender
https://www.senat.fr/fileadmin/cru-1750816532/Structures_temporaires/commissions_d_enquete/CE_Commande_publique/r24-830-11.pdf#page=23

joosteto Jul 16

BohwaZ Jul 17

@adelgado
That statement was made very recently I watched it live.
@skuebeck @Linkshaender

https://www.senat.fr/fileadmin/cru-1750816532/Structures_temporaires/commissions_d_enquete/CE_Commande_publique/r24-830-11.pdf#page=23

joosteto Jul 16

@skuebeck @Linkshaender
You've shortened the link, it doesn't work now. This is the full link (linking directly to page 23):

Andre Jul 16

@skuebeck fun fact: CLOUD Act. No US based company can guarantee any data protection to anyone not from US.

@ComPod They couldn't before that. Confidentiality ended with 9/11 in the US.

Andre Jul 16

@skuebeck before that date there was No Such Agency interested in getting absolutely everything about absolutely everyone. And since then, there’s of course no Such Agency that would do that. Which we would never be allowed to know about.

@HendrikPfaff @skuebeck That’s no news, everyone knows that snd they still use services from MS.

@HendrikPfaff @skuebeck Just as I wrote. They don’t care.

@Linkshaender @skuebeck And they will continue to, because meaningful discussions will never leave the tech echo chambers of self-important nerds...

Rozenn Jul 17

@HendrikPfaff @Linkshaender @skuebeck
As long as it doesn't directly impact them, they won't care.

grob 🇺🇦

@skuebeck @Linkshaender and hardly anyone in charge will care, because they do not understand that in IT "I cannot guarantee that"/"it can happen" usually means it can be done anytime, at scale and unseen. As opposed to real life(tm) where it means it's probably hard, processes take time, someone will notice and complain. IT is different, people don't get it.

Jona Joachim Jul 16

@skuebeck
I don't understand why people are so astonished by this. This has been clear for a very long time for every US company
@Linkshaender

Visa Pollari Jul 17

@skuebeck @Linkshaender it baffles me how often Microsoft wins government contracts.

Joaquim Homrighausen Jul 17

@visapollari

It shouldn't baffle you. The people handling the government side of things aren't the least interested unless there's legislation in place to prevent it.

Oh wait ... there is 😉 😎

And, Microsoft (and others) are known for their massive lobbying efforts.

@skuebeck @Linkshaender

da_habakuk Jul 17

@skuebeck @Hetti @Linkshaender quelle surprise