Mastodawn

This notion that we need to ask what teachers are able to DO with their time (not just say "let's shave time off teaching") is such a crystal clear point and one that is resonating across multiple worlds, from technology teams through classrooms, it doesn't surprise me at all as someone who's been a behavioral scientist in BOTH domains. "time savings" is always the bullshit way to talk about interventions

https://thebrokencopier.substack.com/p/the-sentence-that-im-very-tired-of

The Sentence That I'm Very Tired Of Hearing as a Teacher

and my case for nuance with the term "efficiency" in education

The Broken Copier

Dr. Cat Hicks Jul 12

Even if we DO decide to care about "efficiency" (many good arguments against this frame as mentioned in this post), all these simplistic "hours saved" hand-waving calculations usually still *aren't even measures of efficiency*!

Such an uphill battle talking about this in tech where people often cannot even IMAGINE the case where "good" doesn't equal "faster" or "less time"

May Likes Toronto Jul 12

@grimalkina When I was going to Teachers College, it was a year or two after most elementary schools had put in SmartBoards.

We had to learn to use the Smart board software and holy cow is that a lot of work.

As an elementary teacher, you're responsible for coming up with 6 hours of lessons a day x 5 days a week. It has to be entertaining, engaging, structured, follows the curriculum........ Imagine if you had to make a Powerpoint for each part of that lesson, but each object in that Powerpoint needed to be programmed for human interactivity.

I know some teachers who actually did this for almost every single class. It's an 18 hour/day job, because then you also have admin work, marking, social work, your lessons crashing so you're crying under your desk...

Dr. Cat Hicks Jul 12

@mayintoronto the only time I saw Ashley cry after teaching was during the pandemic while wrestling with completely transforming and writing entirely new curricula on a moment's notice with no control over it or support and with enforced technology from the university. Tech and education mixtures can be devastating

@grimalkina @mayintoronto I was academic tech support at a university for a few years, and in that time I did not ever once see a smartboard work. Not once.

We spent so much time and money on that shit, and we never once asked if solved a real problem anyone had, or even if it worked at all.

Dr. Cat Hicks Jul 12

@mhoye @mayintoronto infuriating. But also classic -- this newsletter I'm sharing above is called "the broken copier" for a reason I would imagine.

Sometimes I can imagine my entire journey going from a minimum wage service job rural area teenager to a big public university and then to an unbelievably wealthy tech company as a series of vignettes where the physical surroundings of my work get less and less broken

@grimalkina @mayintoronto Sometimes I joke that I made the mistake of admitting I could fix the office printer at a temp gig in 1996, and they just kept giving me more, bigger and weirder stuff to fix and now I'm here.

Insecurity Princess 🌈💖🔥Jul 12

@mhoye @grimalkina @mayintoronto
They somehow keep coming up with bigger and weirder things to fix

Martin Rundkvist Jul 12

@mhoye @grimalkina @mayintoronto
I occasionally ran into smart boards when I was an adjunct or replacement lecturer. But since I was precariously employed and had to travel far to these campuses, I never took the time to learn how they worked.

@mrundkvist @grimalkina @mayintoronto Good news: that was time well not-spent.

recursive 🏳️‍🌈Jul 12

@mhoye @grimalkina @mayintoronto I remember hearing about schools getting these (and teachers not seeing the point) back when the one situation where I wished for something like that (being able to more effectively share whiteboards IRL with remote coworkers) was considered too expensive in companies with lucrative enterprise software products.

May Likes Toronto Jul 12

@recursive But this spending is for the kids! So they can interact with Tech! Don't you care about making sure the kids learn tech early?!?!

*dies inside*

@mhoye @grimalkina

recursive 🏳️‍🌈Jul 12

@mayintoronto @mhoye @grimalkina It's disappointing how we treat teachers as if they're in no way an authority on their profession

Andromeda Yelton Jul 12

@mhoye @grimalkina @mayintoronto when I was a teacher they were putting in smartboards and asked if I wanted one and I was like but…why? Are you training me in how to teach with it? What do I do with it?

May Likes Toronto Jul 12

@grimalkina Exactly!!! The only tech that matters is one that actually solves the problems of the people using it.

My problem was not "blackboards aren't tech enough". My problem was "my students are hungry and therefore acting up", or "I would like to update parents on what's going on, but I don't want to have to be their personal secretary when their little angel gets a B." Just take care of the admin for me. I'll even write the blurb.

The issue is that Ed Tech is B2B, so teachers end up having to deal with whatever the board decides to buy. What a pain.

Deborah Preuss, pcc 🇨🇦Jul 12

@mayintoronto @grimalkina what is wrong with us? 😭
Teachers are so valuable and important. We should protect them.

The Janx Devil Jul 12

@grimalkina I cannot help but reflect on this observation in light of the recent study about the use of LLM-augmented programming assistance tools seems to have the effect that it slows down the process while making the human think it does the opposite.

I feel like there is an insight there that I can’t quite put into words, and it probably merits some further investigation.

The Janx Devil Jul 12

@grimalkina That study used an exceedingly small sample population so I dunno how much stock to invest in it, but…

Dr. Cat Hicks Jul 12

@janxdevil yeah this is a good instinct. It's super underpowered. I wouldn't trust its estimates

The Janx Devil Jul 13

@grimalkina As I mentioned in another thread on the subject, my own experience with these tools (I am coming to them with a grudge and limited enthusiasm) is that they slow me down, but I’m also wondering if that’s not a bad thing. Maybe they force me to be more methodical and systematic about my exploration of the problem spaces in my work, and I wonder if that might have beneficial effect on my overall productivity in the long run. (I have other more pessimistic thoughts too.)

Dr. Cat Hicks Jul 12

@janxdevil I have two thoughts about this

1) I don't think that study gives us strong evidence to describe how LLM augmented coding works because of its design & the analyses need to be corrected
https://mastodon.social/@grimalkina/114837000070700830

2) but I agree that we should be really careful about what we think "task time" means, which is something that paper isn't careful about (they call time "a direct measure of productivity" which it definitely isn't and they should know better)

https://mastodon.social/@grimalkina/114831717032315689

@grimalkina I think "what does 'good' mean?" has been the defining question of my career.

I was privileged to work with the NHS (UK public health service) for a few years and it was such a wholesome contrast to government or private software development.

Want a project approved? How does it impact patient outcomes?

Budget or timeline needs re-scoping? How does it impact patient outcomes?

Was the project a success? How has it impacted patient outcomes?

Why are we here? Patient outcomes.

Anders Eknert Jul 12

@grimalkina the AI generated ”can can” typo in the image certainly helps drive the point here, lol

David Collie Jul 12

@grimalkina it’s not about getting more done, it’s about being able to do things you otherwise wouldn’t attempt.

@grimalkina I teach HS CS. I don't enjoy marking - I can feel it putting my brain to sleep. But the insight into errors, ideas, strengths, misconceptions that a couple of hours marking gives is invaluable. Meta-patterns, remembering what happened in a lesson, as to why the answers are the way they are.

Mason Loring Bliss Jul 12

@grimalkina I'd tend to think that if we want to make life easier for teachers, we'd stop forcing them to use their own meager salaries to pay for necessary educational supplies for their students.