Mastodawn

Did you know that Microsoft just turns Copilot writing assist on for webpages in Microsoft Edge?
So like, if you type in edit boxes, it just... gets sent to Microsoft? Straight up?
And this is enabled by default?
So first, what the actual hell? Second, why is nobody talking about this? How the hell is right now the first time I find out about this?

Like you type in an edit box and it's like oh hey let me auto complete that for you. In any random edit box. I can't. What the fuck?

How the fuck is this opt out? Dude what the actual shit? No. Just... what?

Everytime I think it can't possibly get worse it just gets worse.

I know how to turn it off btw. I don't even use Edge. It's pretty telling though that within literal minutes of using it for something I noticed this.

@talon Just use libre wolf, or brave. That’s what I do. I only use mainstream browsers for their PDF Support or in the rarity that I need AI directly inside of a browser..

@serrebi @talon set aside all the reasons to really actually not use brave; Remember that we are talking about edge here, the browser of people who don't know what a browser is. They don't "just" realize everything they type is sent to Microsoft and they then don't "just" switch to firefox or "just" turn it off.

And they won't only be typing their own sensitive data with that browser.

@serrebi Brave's business model is predicated on using its cryptocurrency as an adtech tracking system.

If you recommend LibreWolf because Firefox now has "anonymized" tracking, then its disingenuous to recommend the Brave cryptobros.

@tasket Good thing I don’t use cryptocurrency, or their ad lock :-)

@serrebi I guess its lucky that you don't use it, because a while back they created accounts for loads of people without their consent... so they could later make the system opt-out. (Yes, it was a scandal and they stopped. Did they stop the greedy tricks? No...)

The expectation being that most of the people in your/my life would one day find they had ad money trickling in as long as they didn't opt out.

@talon Yeah, Microsoft has boundary issues. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data-Beware-of-the-new-Outlook-9608798.html

Microsoft lays hands on login data: Beware of the new Outlook

The free new Outlook replaces Mail in Windows, and later also the classic Outlook. It sends secret credentials to Microsoft servers.

heise online

@gavin57 lol that's actually incredible. In the worst way.

Angela Scholder 2d ago

@talon That's what I was thinking: "Don't use Edge!"

Unfortunately I'm still dealing with cameras that have ActiveX and use Edge in IE mode for that
Maybe I should just use my old W2000 machine with the read IE for that.

Angela Scholder 2d ago

@talon BTW, I fully uninstalled Copilot in my W10 Pro.
Also more, like Word, OneDrive, and more of that crap.

Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺3d ago

@talon One reason why I stick to mac. But don't go on the negative. See if there isn't a way to disable that crap. Maybe a tweak or something. 🤗

@tardis The fact that its on by default is the undeniable negative. And its unforgivable, too.

Oliver D. Reithmaier 2d ago

@tasket @tardis are your surprised? They did the same with copilot pcs, until someone discovered that it would also screenshot passwords etc.

They don't learn. They're lazy and just want to make as much cash as they can with minimal effort. Also there's no good legislation to enforce opt-in as de-facto standard for new features on bought and paid products. This would be a fight worth fighting.

Psyhackological 1d ago

@tardis @talon who said the Mac is safe in the future? But for now yeah.

@tardis
Next Windows update silently be like "Oh, this is disabled? Let me turn it on again quickly for the user! It's better that way..."

This is why I stopped using Windows and deleted my Facebook account 20 years ago: When shit suddenly started to automagically switching itself back on again. And nowadays they don't even hide it anymore: "Oh, so you disabled us to collect your data on all of your devices. Do you want to re-enable it? - Yes! / Ask me later."
@talon

Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺1d ago

@momo @talon Bleh, yeah. Windows sucks, but I guess I do use it sometimes. Have 2 windows computers, sadly, for me.

@tardis
It's okay. My work computer runs Win11 and goes full copilot because my employee put "By happily and curiously adopting Copilot we archieve an productivity gain of 16%!" in our annual team targets.

I asked what the relevant productivity baseline value us (that we need to increase by 16%) and in what SI unit one measures productivity (is it Watts? Watts per hour?) How do you even measure productivity? I mean we need to know that so that we are able to tell when we archieved that KPI and since it's bonus relevant, this means a few thousand bucks for some of us...

The answer was: "Well, that team target is... more like a... work in progress... thingy..." which is management german legalese for "If you have copilot activated you automatically scored that target by 100%". So... here we are.
@talon

Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺1d ago

@momo @talon Uh, I am so glad we don't use that... At least not our department. Although the company does provide a gpt model for us to use, but I haven't really used it. Don't fancy AI writing my reports. LOL

@tardis
If you ever meet this specific number "16% increase in productivity", not 15.5% and not 17%... It comes straight from Microsofts Marketing powerpoint sheets. There is no technical proof behind it, it's just made up by marketing.
@talon

Mendi Evans 3d ago

@talon Oh wow, hope that trend stops.

Andreas K 3d ago

@Mendi_Tech
What should it stop?

Andreas K 3d ago

@talon
It has to get more pervasive.

You know they need the growth in LLM interactions for their next quarterly investor call.

The users? What they gonna do? Personal experience shows that even these who easily could switch to Linux, stock with their Windows, while cursing hourly about it.

Ryan Peters 3d ago

@talon just turn it off. Edge is heavily integrated with copilot.

RealGene ☣️2d ago

@ryan @talon
"Just" is doing some heavy lifting there…

@RealGene @ryan Yep, when billions of people are exposed to this as a default, then the default is the only thing that really matters. #optout is inappropriate for such an invasion of privacy.

Most other people you converse with online, or who enter information relating to you/family/friends are probably not thinking about it as a privacy risk.

fromjason.xyz ❤️ 💻1d ago

He works at Microsoft, so of course he's going to be dismissive

@RealGene @ryan @talon

Ryan Peters 1d ago

@fromjason @RealGene @talon I don't work in that department

Fionnáin 3d ago

@talon in fairness, a lot of people talked about this when Windows 11 was being rolled out. It caused a lot of people to switch to Linux. But those who know don't want to flog a dead horse when they think other people already know. Obviously, plenty of people still don't.

I think MS's communications team is much stronger at suppressing this than the internet's ability to spread the message, and there is the real problem.

@talon Horrific and hilarious at the same time.

Astonishing, really...

@talon opt out by not using edge? Are you tied to it through your work or something?

I'm sorry to be one of those people

Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺3d ago

@talon Not surprised. It's also in the help page now, like, literally, it sticks itself in there when you press F1. That thing is everywhere.

廃墟猫 🐈🐈‍⬛🐈🐈‍⬛🐈‍⬛3d ago

@talon because no one uses edge?

Andre 🌈3d ago

@talon you agree to being ripped off by using ms edge. You shouldn't be too surprised.

I find it very interesting when you use corporate outlook for the web. That is a major thing and should be a no-go for any non-europen company

PhreakByte 3d ago

@talon should definitely have been set to disabled by default, or alternatively ‘basic’ which only process locally.

PhreakByte 3d ago

Go to edge://settings/languages.
Under Writing assistance, either disable it entirely or select Basic instead of Microsoft Editor.

kevin ⁂ (he/him)3d ago

@talon do you have any source for this?? I’d like to read up on it but can’t find anything when searching

Andrzej Stamburski 3d ago

@talon Ms Windows is not an OS. It is an Microsoft endpoint at your home to serve Ms business. Edge is not a webbrowser. It is a tool of Microsoft to know what you are browsing in the web. Chrome is not a web browser, it is a tool of Google. Android is not an OS, it is a tool for many companies to inform them everything about you, what you watch, what you listen to, what you are interested in, when you go to bed and when you wake up.
I'm surprised that you are surprised.

Andrzej Stamburski 3d ago

@talon Alternatives do not exist and are actively blocked by governments, banks, employers, but there are some. They are not always as easy to use and not so popular.

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴2d ago

@stamberry @talon

You'll find many of the alternatives popular here.

@e_mydata, an android alternative compatible with android apps, which you get the option to install instead of android if you buy a #FairPhone5 (a very pleasant smartphone, made from recycled and ethically sourced materials, with 5+ years warranty, and decent specs)

For browsers there's @Vivaldi, based on Chromium so it's compatible with Chrome-apps. They have their own Mastodon server with thousands of users too.

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴2d ago

@stamberry @talon

When it comes to operating systems, there's multiple brands of linux consumer laptops across Europe. I myself have been using Tuxedo for a long time now (they have some quite powerful laptops), where I also have NextCloud as my cloud service.

Independence happens one step at a time, cutting out one service at a time.

Spotify? -> BandCamp
Google/Bing search? -> DuckDuckGo or Qwant/Ecosia

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴2d ago

@stamberry @talon

Only service I have not been able to fully substitute are YouTube (for their vast catalogue) and Google Maps (for their up-to-date business information, street view, etc.)

Andrzej Stamburski 2d ago

@amici Thanks for answers. I'm on Linux since 2007. Ubuntu Touch was my only phone 2015-2019. I also host my own Nextcloud server, so nobody in my family is using google nor apple for storage.

@amici @stamberry @talon On Android, check out f-droid, which has open source substitutes for YouTube and G. maps. Most of the apps I use come from them.

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴1d ago

@c_merriweather @stamberry @talon

The open source maps I have tried, like Organic Maps, are noticably subpar in information, and I often find myself resorting to Google Maps because what I need isn't available in the others

"YouTube substitutes" (which aren't real substitutes but just client hacking and rerouting) are also unstable. Invidious instances often lack enough bandwidth to deliver full HD. I believe both NewPipe and FreeTube also rely on Invidious in the background.

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴1d ago

@c_merriweather @stamberry @talon

PeerTube has the technology to be a proper YT substitute since its peer-to-peer enables server-independent traffic scaling. But the PeerTube catalogue is quite small, and there's a major lack of highly skilled content creators and community per channel

@amici @stamberry @talon I don't expect perfection, but I enjoy the lack of advertising on NewPipe, Xtra, OrganicMaps, and Grasshopper.

As always, YMMV.

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴22h ago

@c_merriweather @stamberry @talon

in the case of Invidious/NewPipe etc., it's not about perfection. The service is simply not available because YouTube blocks it, then you have to wait for a software update before it works again

I still use NewPipe because I quite like it - when it works, but it isn't solving any actual problems. It's still YouTube, just with a middleman to pass data into an alternative client.

PeerTube is where things should go, and needs to go. That's the future we deserve

Amici Is Me 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇳🇴22h ago

@c_merriweather @stamberry @talon

Of course NewPipe is totally prepared for that, with its integration with PeerTube. As soon as we can make enough content findable on PeerTube, the revolution and the shift is ready to go.

@amici @stamberry @talon All I want to do is stream videos of #ttrpgs, which are unlikely to ever be on a different
platform. NewPipe works well enough for that.

Paul Sutton 3d ago

It is marketed as a tool that we need and can't live without, so people are just brainwashed with regard to AI.

nikolar 🏕3d ago

@talon that's awful. Oh well, back to my Android that probably sends everything I do to some data market

Joeri Sebrechts 3d ago

@talon don’t worry, microsoft pinky promises in their privacy statement that they don’t persist any of this data. 😅

It’s definitely not compliant with GDPR, at least my understanding of it.

They just rolled out a writing assistance API in edge with a local phi 4 mini model. My guess is they’ll be moving this feature over to that when it goes out of beta.

schrotthaufen 3d ago

@talon @bert_hubert A decade ago, this would have been classified as info stealer malware 🙊

extra queer Mira

@talon Sounds like a pretty blatant violation of some privacy laws…

lucasmz (he/they) (en)3d ago

@talon windows

Eric Lawton 3d ago

Password fields?