Mastodawn

Charlotte Walker

So Bluesky is about to require people to verify their age, which means sharing their real identity. I’ve no problem with people knowing my identity but then I’m not trying to hide from abusers. Or explore my gender. Or be a whistleblower. Or protest without getting arrested. Or or or… there are so many reasons people need anonymity.

Despite being myself online I am not keen to show Bluesky my scanned face or my bank card. So I guess I won’t be sticking around there.

I gave my advice before I left, which was “Switch to Mastodon, nobody there cares who you are, as long as you’re funny.”

@purplepadma Its a thorny issue, with nasty stuff able to happen without any retribution, but I agree that much would be lost if anonimity was lost

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@Beedazzled That’s not why they’re doing it. It’s because the UK government is trying to restrict young people’s access to porn sites by requiring age verification.

@purplepadma yes, I know its causing all sorts of issues for small instances. Obviously I don't want kids to access porn but I am pretty sure they will circumvent whatever is put in place if they have a mind to. I do seem to be seeing more very explicit stuff on here which I don't want, but thats what the block button is for

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@Beedazzled I’m pretty sure they will too, kids are devious at times and a lot more tech savvy than politicians!

@purplepadma @Beedazzled fr

Milcom Miasma 1d ago

@purplepadma @Beedazzled

Like that's hard... 😂

My dead cat is more internet savvy than most politicians.

Gareth Kitchen 1d ago

@purplepadma @Beedazzled

As soon as they were old enough I gave my two access to our ProtonVPN. It kept them safe and allowed them to bypass the school's filtering etc.

You have to properly educate them on the risks and how to keep themselves safe. That was my job as a parent.

They turned out fine btw.

Matija Nalis 1d ago

@gruff @purplepadma @Beedazzled
a) there is no way in hell that any law would be able to prevent teenager wanting to find sex on the Internet from being successful in their intention; not even with North-Korean-level restrictions
b) Trying to force it anyway will only make them move to even shadier places on the 'net where they'll be at much more risk
c) if the worry is that they'll get dangerous/damaging ideas or whatever, then the correct way is to educate them beforehand.
d) less spying pls!

Moonshine Fox 1d ago

@Beedazzled @purplepadma the core problem of that is the same as it’s always been, how do you define porn. Before the Internet, the lingerie section of the sear’s catalog was a notable source of enticing imagery.

@moonshine_fox @purplepadma titilation maybe but that was never porn

Moonshine Fox 1d ago

@Beedazzled @purplepadma I got off to it, it was porn for me. That’s the problem of trying to define porn, there is no clear cut answer.

Charlotte Walker 1d ago

@moonshine_fox @Beedazzled Haha mysterious how my mum’s slightly racy fantasy novels automatically fell open at the sex scenes

𝑩𝒓𝒊𝒂𝒏 𝑯𝒂𝒓𝒑𝒆𝒓 2d ago

@purplepadma
The US is doing that as well. A law in Texas upheld by the Supreme Court says age verification for pornographic website was constitutional. I don't know if social media was included but probably.
@Beedazzled

@purplepadma @Beedazzled @That_One_Guy

Constitutional and effective are very different things

𝑩𝒓𝒊𝒂𝒏 𝑯𝒂𝒓𝒑𝒆𝒓 2d ago

@DavidM_yeg
I'm not saying I agree with their approach, just what was said. I'm not really sure there is a way to stop kids viewing adult material completely.

It's way easier than me stumbling into my brother's magazine stash hidden behind the cabinet in the barn.
@purplepadma @Beedazzled

@That_One_Guy @purplepadma @Beedazzled

“I'm not really sure there is a way to stop kids viewing adult material completely”

Exactly, so trampling all over the right and ability of adults to participate safely in as simple and basic a thing as social media seems not only an overreaction, but an oppressive and futile one as well.

@purplepadma @Beedazzled Australia are banning children from using all social media. Including (at the moment) YouTube. Of course, the kids are just going to chat/sext/bully in Google Docs. But hey.
It's definitely not about making everyone sign-up for their Digital ID thing. Definitely not.

@quokka1 @purplepadma @Beedazzled considering Google classroom requires YouTube to function, that will be an interesting move

@Pionir @purplepadma @Beedazzled it's almost like they've not thought it through

@quokka1 @purplepadma @Beedazzled Bro, they're going around with Google Doc. That's funny and ingenious.

Jeremy Daniele 2d ago

@purplepadma @Beedazzled that seems to always be their reason for taking away privacy, though. They know no one is going to argue that kids must be protected, but it's always at the cost of the entire populations' privacy. The good thing with ID checking for purchasing products in person is a human can only look and nothing is stored. As for bars that scan your ID should be banned. But online they keep your ID on file.

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@jdaniele @Beedazzled I’ve just been accused of being ok with kids accessing porn by someone who states that they post unpopular truths 🙄🙄🙄

@purplepadma @jdaniele without anonimity peoples views are effectively curtailed for fear of causing problems at work. Of course some people's views deserve to cause trouble at work but in some jobs you have to appear totally apolitical. Its a way of shutting people down.

Jeremy Daniele 2d ago

@purplepadma @Beedazzled at what point is it the parents' responsibility to monitor what their kids view online? This is no different from pre-internet. The government really shouldn't be involved in things like this. No one is being physically harmed, and this is something their parents need to step in, in my opinion. Sometimes you need the government and sometimes you don't. They use the same excuse for encrypted texting too.

You're assuming a level of tech savvy on behalf of the parents that for many doesn't exist. I'd have no problem handling this, but my wife wouldn't. And I know lots of parents who'd struggle (and do). For many the easiest option is to offload the responsibility to their ISP and mobile service provider to do the blocking for them.

@purplepadma @Beedazzled

Becca Cotton-Weinhold 1d ago

@jdaniele
That is a design choice. Age verification tech doesn't have to store your identity and personal data indefinitely. They could just validate and forget your ID data.
@purplepadma @Beedazzled

@rlcw But the age verification does need to gather identity information. How can you be sure they're not keeping it permanently? I wouldn't trust them.

Becca Cotton-Weinhold 7h ago

@okapi
It's not only one site that fails here, it's a whole industry and countries that choose to require age verification, but to not provide infrastructure that allows you to do so anonymously. They issue electronic ID, but no infra to only pass on the required pieces. It's a choice that I can have a physical plastic card to verify myself, but no online equivalent, that I can use to verify who I am without the state knowing who's asking. Countries actively choose to keep us this vulnerable.

@purplepadma @Beedazzled That's the government's excuse, it's data gathering and censorship along with trying to kill small communities in practice. It's good intentions sure but it's also drastic overreach.

@purplepadma @Beedazzled They did Clause 28 under the banner of protecting children too. I was a child at the time and the wave of homophobia and abuse very nearly killed me, so I get pretty suspicious whenever “but, the children!” comes up like this.

@purplepadma @Beedazzled Also, gov.uk exists, the government gateway exists, we’ve had things like OAuth for years now, if we need to prove we’re old enough there are privacy protecting ways to do it without handing data to any old company. Grumble, rant, etc.

doombunny 2d ago

@aegir @purplepadma @Beedazzled But how would they get all that sweet tracking information if it protected privacy? 🙃
I wonder if Thiel's data sponge is likely to be involved, particularly after they recently got the middle finger from the BMJ.

Ultimately, this looks like another way to funnel public money into private hands.

@aegir @purplepadma @Beedazzled
clause 28?

moomin_hattifatteners

@M1k3yv2 Clause 28 refers to an atrocious piece of UK legislation supposedly intended to.protect children by banning the "promotion" of homosexuality. In reality, it led to erasure and censure, of course. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28 @aegir @purplepadma @Beedazzled

Section 28 - Wikipedia

@ravenbait @M1k3yv2 @purplepadma @Beedazzled It also meant that homophobic schools and teachers would allow (and encourage, and take part in) homophobic bullying under the defence that they weren’t legally allowed to prevent it. All bullshit.

@aegir @ravenbait @M1k3yv2 @purplepadma and that is now happening to trans kids

Charlotte Walker 1d ago

@aegir @Beedazzled Right!

@purplepadma oh, they are doing that? I hadn't seen.

@purplepadma ah that's good to know. i keep thinking i ought to try bluesy again — someone told me i could sell stuff there, but i tried it and lasted about 10mins — but i can't bring myself to do it. but i'm definitely not sharing anything official or my face with them, so i guess that's me off the hook!

that whole online safety bill thing is about far more than what they say it is, i'm quite sure. just like asda don't really need facial recognition in shops ...

bah.

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@moonrabbit TBH Bluesky kind of sucks, I’m only really on it for the handful of old #MadTwitter comrades who migrated over there. I’ve been thinking of abandoning it, I’ve accidentally conjured up a feed which is relentless depressing. There is no whimsy or humour like you find over here

Kate McDonald 2d ago

@moonrabbit @purplepadma I have a Bluesky account but I’ve never really liked it over there. I open it very occasionally, and never stay for long. I don’t hate it enough to delete, I don’t enjoy it enough to actively use it 🤷‍♀️

Humanist Trek Podcast 2d ago

@musiciankate @purplepadma @moonrabbit I’ve had quite the opposite experience! I’ve curated an incredible set of feeds (3-4) based on my interests (mostly Trek) and have made a lot of great connections and conversations. Here I feel so disconnected from my people, save for 10-15ish accounts. So interesting!!

@humanisttrek @musiciankate @purplepadma @moonrabbit Mastodon is no kind of place for the fandoms I'm into, I agree. All the art, writing, analysis is simply absent here. The tags are dead. Everyone went to Bluesky.

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@humanisttrek @musiciankate @moonrabbit That’s interesting. I did go through a phase early on here where I felt like I wasn’t getting much engagement and it felt quite lonely. IIRC I expressed that and all sorts of cool people said, “Hi! Talk with me!” I haven’t really made any friends on Bluesky, only reconnected with old Twitter friends

C Puffer 2d ago

@purplepadma @humanisttrek @musiciankate @moonrabbit The thing I’ve found is if you’re trying to tailor a specific community Mastodon is not exactly suited for that. If you want to find a large mass of people chatting about, say, Buffy or Taskmaster, it can feel dead here. However if you embrace the randomness of humanity, and just build a field of mutuals you find all kinds of people talking about stuff you’d never encounter on other platforms. Follow enough people who share a few overlapping interests and you become like a small group of friends. Like, there’s about 6 to 12 people in my feed that care about MST3K but I feel like I connect with them more because I see other things they love. May not be everyone’s jam but I’m glad for the core users here.

Kent Navalesi ☕️2d ago

@puffer
@purplepadma @humanisttrek @musiciankate @moonrabbit

I think that's the real danger of algorithms that we rarely talk about. By so meticulously tailoring people's feeds, they effectively block posts that could expose them to new ideas and interests and thereby block personal growth.

How many people have never been exposed to, say, urbanism or infosec simply because they started out following sports or celebs? That's a lot of my motivation for #fediverse advocacy. #mastodon

@purplepadma yeah that's pretty much what i found when i tried it. i just .. couldn't ... so fast-paced and yeah very much like twitter. i just ... need to make money, sigh, so i kept trying to jolly myself into trying it again but never quite managed it. i've no idea how i'd have kept up two accounts anyway.

and what kind of crazy place is it, not having whimsy?? paff to them. PAFF i say.

@moonrabbit @purplepadma paff indeed!

DeltaWye 2d ago

@Shelly @moonrabbit @purplepadma The bulk of the people/creatures on Mastodon are absolutely amazing

Charlotte Walker 2d ago

@moonrabbit I tell you that apart from@the odd account that pretends to be a cat, there’s precious little of it

@purplepadma 😂

"pretends" ...

@purplepadma @moonrabbit I bet some of the users are actually cats just because this is the best place online and cats would know that.