Marsh Ray
Eleanor SaittaWhen this case first came out, I was talking to a relatively senior Finnish journalist about freedom of the press in Finland. We came to the conclusion that Finland's then best in the world ranking on press freedom was entirely down to the fact that the press had never wanted anything that the government wasn't ok with having in the papers. This decision is broadly incompatible with freedom of expression. Prosecuting folks who agreed to keep state secrets is one thing. Accusing journalists of treason, let alone convicting them, for publishing material that in their professional opinion was newsworthy is completely unacceptable. The Finnish national security bureaucracy does and must not be above the constraints of international human rights law, and must not be permitted to either constrain a priori or decide post hoc what is in the national interests. I assume this will be appealed and that the Finnish Supreme Court (or, failing them, the European Court of Human Rights) does the right thing. This case has already caused a significant chilling effect on Finnish journalism — already not in a great position — and this is happening at a time when Finland's national security position and responsibilities are changing rapidly. We need transparency and accountability in the national security bureaucracy now more than ever.
Willow 🏳️⚧️🏴🇵🇸@dymaxion I can’t find the source right now, but I just was talking about most of the owners, directors or head editors of major finnish newspapers are usually listed in NCP aka Kokoomus, the head of political control in Finland.
Its impossible to find a new source that is critical of the government’s austerity measures. that have been made exactly how NCP and EK wanted, and which have ruined the whole economy while kicking poor people to the streets. “soon the economy rises”.
Yeah, there are the usual media ownership problems; a sane ruling won't fix those, but this will definitely make the problem worse.
szakib@szakib
They did! And it turns out, that is sometimes in the national interest, but also, regardless, the right to freedom of the press is more important than military secrecy. These journalists do not have security clearances and have not sworn to keep the secrets of the state. Under agreed international human rights law, state classification schemes do not constrain ordinary citizens, full stop. Distinctions are made during wartime, but Finland is, notably, not at war — and in 2017 was still on friendly terms with Russia.
So yeah, they did, and that's fine. You have probably heard the name Edward Snowden, yes? He would, if not in exile, face charges as a leaker, but the journalists who received and published the material did not.
Sami Sundell@szakib Also: Yle story doesn't cover it, but one of the points of defense was that all the information was also available publicly, according to another article they actually provided a table of public sources on the perceived secrets.
So in addition to what @dymaxion said, it's even debatable whether the published data was legitimately classified.
Of course, one of the issues in the reporting was that they very much advertised it as being classified...
Snark Week Global@szakib It seems to me a bit like with Snowden, as the facility they uncovered is also for internet traffic monitoring, at least according to the the lead of the article they got in trouble for:
https://web.archive.org/web/20171217174049/https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000005492284.html
But then again, maybe what they didn't like is actually in the lead, after all Snowden also got in trouble for revealing the existence of traffic analysis facilities.
Salaisuus kallion uumenissa – juuri kukaan ei tiedä, mitä tekee Puolustusvoimien Viestikoekeskus, mutta nyt HS:n saamat asiakirjat avaavat mysteerin
Suomen salaisin paikka Keski-Suomen kallioiden uumenissa saa muun tiedustelulaitoksen ohella oikeuden valvoa internetliikennettä, jos eduskunta hyväksyy tiedustelulait. Kansanedustajat joutuvat päättämään asiasta tietämättä tarkkaan, mitä Tikkakoskella oikein tapahtuu. Helsingin Sanomat kertoo nyt ja lähipäivinä, mitä sotilastiedustelu tekee – ja on tehnyt.
Snowden swore an oath to uphold, among other things, the secrecy law that bound the documents he disclosed. While one can argue about whether those structures are good or harmful or whatever, that's a very different situation than a journalist writing about material that has been sent to them. Journalists did not swear to uphold official secrets structures. This case treats them like soldiers, not civilians.
@szakib
Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑@dymaxion if the documents were classified they would be convicted in any democracy.
They must have known this or they are exceptionally uneducated.
Again, publishing national security documents is a crime, should be a crime, and they knew it was a crime.
@WhyNotZoidberg
This is not true
Do you know the name Edward Snowden? Do you think that the reporters who published his leaks should have been jailed for exposing illegal surveillance and abuse by the NSA? You may note that they were not even charged, because they could not be.
Magnus Ahltorp
10tothe22
crazyeddie
Vikman 
Thanks.
So that's who the source is. Not really sure what it matters tho; all people involved knew it was National Security classified information, aka the kind of information you would be getting life time in prison or executed for revealing (depending on what democracy we talk about) if it had been during wartime.
Again, it doesn't have anything to do with "freedom of the press". Revealing this kind of information is treason in literally every country on the globe.
Hovav Shachamthey would be convicted in any democracy […] publishing national security documents is a crime
Not in the United States. See New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971): https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/403/713/
Reed MidekeYes, it went to court, and they were deemed guilty. As I have been saying.
The OP seem to indicate that the very idea of them being judged is Fascism, which is preposterous.
🆘Bill Cole 🇺🇦@WhyNotZoidberg @dymaxion Not true in the USA. Journalists and other private citizens have no obligation under US law to keep the government’s secrets. See https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/403/713/ a.k.a. the “Pentagon Papers” case.
The only people who have an obligation to keep such secrets are people who have agreed to do so (i.e. as government employees.)
@grumpybozo @dymaxion So according to American law, treason is legal as long as you are "a private citizen"?
That is exceptionally weird to me. It does however explain why the FBI never arrested Trump for having boxes with classified documents in his bathroom.
Opposing the government is not treason per se. There are other laws which specifically address particular sorts of national security secret sharing but as a general principle, publishing facts that one obtains without soliciting or assisting others to break their obligations to maintain secrecy is legally safe.
In this case it went to court, and the court deemed they were indeed harming the country.
I think it’s likely an artifact of being founded in revolution against the concept of centralized government.
ejimWow:
"without a court order, police seized Halminen's personal phone, her company phone, her personal computer and iPad, as well as a large number of USB flash drives. Police also reportedly searched through her bookshelves and kitchen ventilation, but did not search her children's room."
@dymaxion
"earlier in the evening a computer hard drive Halminen was destroying with a hammer began smoking. She called firefighters who arrived accompanied by a police patrol. Once the officers realized who she was, the officers called in backup.
Laura Halminen has specialized in reporting on data security and has also written for Helsingin Sanomat on subjects including the neo-Nazi Nordic Resistance Movement."
https://yle.fi/a/3-9981816
"The article, titled "Finland's most secret place," included 10-year-old data on the rough location and tasks of an intelligence unit of the defense forces, the Finnish Intelligence Research Center.
At the time, the Finnish Parliament had been mulling whether the unit should be given more powers to monitor private online data."
https://www.dw.com/en/finnish-journalists-convicted-of-revealing-state-secrets/a-64537523
Yup. They also showed up at the office of the newspaper and seized a bunch of machines.
@dymaxion Feels like the whole world is being overrun by fascism. Not saying Finland is, but that is what THIS is. UK criminalizing protest...
The EU has really strong protections around data, but that's only as strong as the peoples' will to keep them. We (US) are already basically toast, EU is heading the same way. It's scary. I want you guys to hold out somehow.