Extinction Rebellion GlobalJeff Bezos is arriving for his wedding in Venice in a mega yacht and his guests are turning up in 95 private jets.
We're here avoiding food waste in our kitchens. 😑
Yora@ExtinctionR That's the difference between humans and parasites.
mcSlibinas@yora @ExtinctionR Bezos singlehandedly can fix many problems of all humanity with that wealth.
He can become superhero.
He choosed not to.
He can become superhero.
He choosed not to.
Beldarak@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
That's the argument I constantly have with my rich friend. Billionaires are, by design, by simply existing, unethical.
If you have so much money that you can fix something like Africa's starvation and chose not to, you are responsible for it.
If you can pay 10 millions and not feel it on your daily live, you should give it...
His reply is always "but you have a big house, why don't you give it away then"... Because it would change my daily life!
@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
And then we always cycle to it. He either refuses to understand or lack any morality regarding the money subject, I don't know.
The fact he can't comprehend the difference between having lots of money and having an unfathomable amount of it is mind boggling. I'm 100% convinced he lost some sense of reality when he became rich, and we're not speaking about billions rich, he's just a guy with a few millions
If it did that to him, imagine what billions do...
@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
He also doesn't seem to grasp the difference between someone like me giving money to improve someone's life, like a few people.
And the fact a billionaire can actually fix systemic issues.
And that's not even speaking of the fact billionaires aren't just sitting on their money doing nothing with it. No, they're actively using it to make the world an even more miserable place to live, doing politics, messing around with other countries... !
@Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR the problem is democracy vs authocracy (oligarchy) not capitalism vs socialism.
Democracy is when laws are working. All ppl pay taxes, you and me, Bezos and Mezos. All ppl obey to the same law.
Democracies can fix much more problems, than all of Bezos'es.
Just need to make democracies work.
I'd say lets start from oligarchs ban from mass media, soc media and other mass brain damage tools.
@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
I'd argue they're both the issues. Capitalism is the foundation on which oligarchy can be built.
In a world where you put profit above all else, rich people will have the political power and will use it to raise profits.
But keep in mind I'm not 100% against capitalism, I think we can have a better curated version of it but quite frankly, socialism seems like a better system.
Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸@Beldarak @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR The goal should be to democratise the industry. The framework in which this happens is more or less secondary (but would have to be democratic in some way as well).
Unfortunately we got an authocratic economy instead, with all the flaws that come with it - and all the dependencies supposed democratic political leaders have to deal with. All the corruption that comes from this is completely home-made.
@Natanox @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR so question is democracy vs autocracy; not like try of commercial soc media to blind us with capitalism vs socialism.
@mcSlibinas @Natanox @yora @ExtinctionR
Yes, but what do you do when someone with tons of money come and start corrupting elected people and judges?
We should have tools to block those people from even existing. And I feel a very good tool for that is socialism since it prevents someone like Musk to have so much power over states.
I'm sure there are other solutions though and that some mix between systems can be great too. The question is "where/when do we start?".
@Beldarak @Natanox @yora @ExtinctionR go to Norway and buy judges. Will end in perfect cell of the best jail in the world.
How to start - i don't know.
Maybe some social scientist have some thoughts about it - while reading our conversation? Maybe some smarter dude has idea where to look?
How to start - i don't know.
Maybe some social scientist have some thoughts about it - while reading our conversation? Maybe some smarter dude has idea where to look?
@mcSlibinas @Natanox @yora @ExtinctionR
Yup, I guess the starting point depends on each country.
I don't know much about Norway but everytime I hear about northern (I live in Belgium) countries it seems they're pretty well advanced regarding social stuff, education, etc...
Europe is basically in a pretty good place I think (overall, obviously there are tons of challenges in front of us).
US is fucked beyond repair rn but I'm curious as to what happens once Trump will be out of the game
@Beldarak @Natanox @yora @ExtinctionR is enough bad signs of corruption in Europe too. People doesn't care much - because they do not know.
They don't know because no mass media talks about.
Mass media do not talking about corruption because it's commercial mass media and make biiig money on corruption.
Brexit is a good example how commercial mass media make voters vote dumb.
@mcSlibinas @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR Mass Media does whatever they think pleases the algorithms of corpo media since that's the main source of visibility for them. Even if they're not owned by some billionaire they're still played like a fiddle. Even media will secured finances feel that drag, and those are usually fought by right-wingers (the useful idiots of the rich) anyway if they can't be bought and perverted.
@mcSlibinas @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR There are very few places where billionaires could effectively be fought. Mostly unions of countries since single countries often simply can't afford it - or are outright raided by paramiltaries or other countries like the US if they dare to question power structures, no matter how democratically that happens. EU *maybe*… perhaps the African Union if that one ever comes to be (I really hope it does!).
levampyre@mcSlibinas In an economic system based on capitalism, i.e. unlimited growth through exploitation of limited resources, democracy cannot properly function. We need to limit growths, esp. in regard to individuals accumulating wealth/money. If everything depends on money and you are the guy with the money, democracy may want what it may, the guy with the actual money remains the actual puppet master who wields the actual power. #TaxTheRich #degrowth
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR democracy can do very well unless people do not care, like in US and vote for corrupted liar.
@mcSlibinas They do not vote for arseholes, b/c they don't care. They vote for arseholes, b/c they lack information and education. To manipulate the opinion of the masses, billionaires took to buying media outlets and forcing them to aim for profitability, not objectiveness or balance. They also pay lobbyists to promote the defunding of public education and other public services and public infrastructure to keep the poor majority dependent. Land of the free my ass!
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR yes. Also mass media are commercial in Eu too. And soc media commercial too. Tv is commercial. Radio. All thę things you see and heard and see is private owned and works for owner profit.
@mcSlibinas Yeah, indeed. That's not good. And one of the reasons, we in Europe vote for arseholes, too. Capitalism is bad for democracy everywhere. I'm not discriminating.
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR not capitalism. Corruption.
Corruption tight tied to money and capitalists, but the reason is population missinformation, brought by capitalist media.
Population can make changes, if only knew.
Capitalism by itself not as bad as socialism, where you do not have any rights.
@mcSlibinas But why are people corrupt? Because capitalizm - money driven societies - incentivizes corruption. It makes money the highest good, more valuable than moral stances or even people.
I don't think socializm is necessarily bad or worse than that. However, authoritarianism is and the socialist countries failed, because of authoritarianism. True social systems distribute the shared wealth of the people, i.e. the fruits of our labour, amongst the community.
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR let's forget it. Not matter capitalism or gulags.
Democracy is only matter. Democracy needs somehow active citizens, it needs journalism and whistleblowers. Corrupted dudes (with names and surnames, btw, not abstract "capitalism") blinded society with mass media and professional journalism.
Journalist can't get money for food, if not write what owner likes.
Also people braging "i'm not into politics" what is pure idiocy 💯
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR 2/2 scientists do researches about democracy, couple examples: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0518-0
https://rea.ec.europa.eu/science-democracy_en
So smart and educated people also looking for answers. They like wizards in tower, far and lonely.
They needs a bards - some poets, writers, influencers - to spread knowledge.
Then will rise some people who can unite people for the job: vote, be active and so on.
Life is like fairytale 😉
What science can do for democracy: a complexity science approach - Humanities and Social Sciences Communications
Political scientists have conventionally assumed that achieving democracy is a one-way ratchet. Only very recently has the question of “democratic backsliding” attracted any research attention. We argue that democratic instability is best understood with tools from complexity science. The explanatory power of complexity science arises from several features of complex systems. Their relevance in the context of democracy is discussed. Several policy recommendations are offered to help (re)stabilize current systems of representative democracy.
@mcSlibinas I fully agree with that. But I also believe we would be better off with taxing the rich properly and limiting growths. But for that to ever happen, we need active citizens to push for these changes. Given the current circumstances, with the climate in crisis and democracies in crisis, change will come for better or worse.
@levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR all people should pay taxes, maybe except poorest or help needed ones. Rich people should pay more. Like living is taxed by x, luxury living taxed by 2x. Super luxury 5x?
Shine@mcSlibinas @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR Looking at numbers, he got voted in mainly because a large amount of people doesn't vote at all - and it's not a surprise. Next to voter suppression, people are just disillusioned. No matter who they vote for, nothing changes. Both democrats and republicans vote against what the majority of people want. The same in UK - now they voted in labor and what for? In my country, it's the same. I have no idea what to vote for.
In capitalism, democracy doesn't exist. And it's not because people vote badly, it's because whoever gets voted in cares more about the needs of their rich donors.
@shine @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR create own party with local people.
Politics is: wages, speed in city, water quality, schools, medicine - all our life is regulated by politics.
Yet people proud "i'm not into politics" "politics make me sic".
That means they like toddlers, they cannot care about themselves.
And that means corrupted politicians can do whatever they want. 1/2
@shine @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR 2/2
Look, you addressed issues to "capitalism" even all of your problem authors have names and surnames. You can't hit a target, when you do not aim.
Look, you addressed issues to "capitalism" even all of your problem authors have names and surnames. You can't hit a target, when you do not aim.
@mcSlibinas @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR Yes, I named one mutual variable that all systems corrupted by oligarchs have. The fact that you claim to be into politics, but at the same time you literally buy into a "socialism is when no rights" narrative pushed by the same corrupt people you claim to oppose is kinda funny :)
Our election system is rigged against small parties. Putting together a bunch of locals makes kinda sense in local politics, but it's pointless on the country scale. I have one party I want to vote for which has a marginal chance of getting into parliament, but they stand against the behemoth who owns basically all of our agriculture with all the money it comes with.
@shine @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR just like i do not lived in socialism 😂😂😂😂😂
nwm, just off topic, sorry.
nwm, just off topic, sorry.
@mcSlibinas @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR on one hand, you say that the current issues with capitalism come from autocracy and corruption and it can be made "democratic" (I wholeheartedly disagree with that, because capitalism is inherently exploitative and undemocratic - there is no democracy in company hierarchy, which is a large portion of our lives)
And at the same time, you extend your anecdotal experience with a different economical system to all possible instances of it, claiming that it can't be democratic.
@mcSlibinas Are you sure it is socialism you're living in? Sounds more like authoritarianism, if you don't have rights.
@levampyre @mcSlibinas @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR Yep. When it comes to capitalism, it's apparently not capitalism that is problematic, but autocracy. But when it comes to socialism, the problem is socialism and not autocracy. It doesn't make any sense.
@shine @levampyre @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR sorry, i will block you. Have no time for socialistic talks.
@mcSlibinas Look, if you're a fan of democracy, you shouldn't block ppl just for having a different opinion. You need to learn to accept differences and either discuss with arguments or disengage. Her arguments are strong, maybe take some time to think about them. But blocking her for making a valid point is childish and not what a democratic society needs.
@levampyre @mcSlibinas @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR I get it, they are from country that got it extremely bad. Even our country has quite a lot of generational trauma, and it can't compare to what they went through.
@levampyre @shine @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR socialism is society rights over private rights. Socialists for redistributing goods (who the distributor in such systems?).
It's dead way to gulags.
I do not want to talk about.
@mcSlibinas We tried that. The party was called "The Pirate Party". It didn't survive the immense pressure put on by people more rich and more influential. We couldn't keep up the enormous energy drain it cost us to play politics. I don't think another party will solve the problem, if the game is rigged already.
@levampyre @mcSlibinas @Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR Our pirate party survived a bit longer, but at the end, it suffers from the same issues. And it's not only the fact that there was pressure on them. It (and from what I heard, it's the same with the German one) just had too many internal contradictions. There are liberal members, some left wing members, anarchists, the moment they got to some power, they got afraid to be seen as too "extreme" and toned everything down, and when they lost majority of disappointed progressive voters, they started steering more to the right, because surely it's because they were too progressive.
It's just a joke of a party at this point. I have some hopes for our greens, but dunno...
@shine Yes, the internal contradictions were definitely a thing within the German pirate party, too. But regarding left anarchist progressive ideas, we had some pretty awesome folks within that active party circle. And some, who got voted into positions of power, filled these roles spectacularly and very much to my satisfaction. Most of these ppl still do awesome left anarchist progressive political work, just not within the party system anymore.
@mcSlibinas @Beldarak@mastodon.tgamedev.place @yora @ExtinctionR@sociatol.rebellion.global
ClipHead
@ClipHead @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
That was an interesting piece (if not very hopefull for the future^^), thanks!
@Beldarak @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
You're welcome.
🤗
Jan Boddez@Beldarak I once read that the difference between a million and a billion is … approximately one billion @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
@janboddez @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
Nice one, and actually true :D
I like this one too:
A million seconds is 12 days.
A billion seconds is 31 years.
spanghero@Beldarak @mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR Money takes control and corrupts. Like many drugs people become dependent on it and can never get enough. The more they get, the more they need until it becomes all consuming.
@Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR billionaires not unethical by design. They unethical by deeds.
Also any particular problem is just one of many - choose Africa means abandon other problems. You did not have responsibility even you do not donate to Ukraine.
What is clearly visible - he have tool to fix something and do not use.
What is hidden a bit - he broke law, he don't pay taxes, he lobbying to break other laws - and here is the problem.
@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
I still think it's unethical to hoard that much money. You take money from the labor of people and keep it out of the economy.
Basically you're stealing people's time and hapiness.
Bezos is especially culprit of this because Amazon's employee have miserable work conditions. He's robbing those people, simply by doing nothing.
@Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR he can't steal when laws are working. So you're right and not right - basically corrupted democracy closed eyes to his deeds.
@mcSlibinas @yora @ExtinctionR
Definitely. The issue is that "he" (and all the people with big money) is the law so I'm not really sure how you can fix this in the current system.
@Beldarak @yora @ExtinctionR i can say about my country, i guess situation is similar: our parties are +- corrupt, so we vote for one or other corrupt party.
There many many people who do not like situation.
So let's make own party. Scientists have works how to make system do not slip to corruption - let's make own party by that model. Then get trust from people and get into power.
No need to revolution or civil war.
BroGle
Bartleby 
@yora @ExtinctionR As nasty as the guy may be, but dehumanising ("parasite") always crosses a line.