I have these two sentences stuck in my head these days:
A French minister: we need to prepare ourselves for a future when temperatures are 4°C higher.
A climate scientist: with a rise of 4°C above pre-industrial age, up to 90% of the world's population may die.
(edit: muting the post, it's going way beyond its intended audience, I'd like to be able to see notifications about other things. thanks you all for sharing)
There is always the possibility to move underground too. Life will always find a path (not saying this is a path I want though :S)
@mhanson101 @Beldarak @CubeRootOfTrue @David I was thinking more along the lines of them being so unintelligent as to think that having lots of money means they also, somehow, gained knowledge outside their own respective fields and therefore dangerously meddling in everything from agriculture to politics is somehow OK.
If only Musk was antisocial, he wouldn't have had that many kids...
@CubeRootOfTrue According to https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-feed-one-person/
To feed 1 person for a year with veg, fruit, eggs, chicken, milk, wheat & grain you need ~2 acres of land
I was taught you also need a fallow field & you rotate this field each year
So say ~3 acres with ⅓ unused a year
You could use a shelving system to reduce the total footprint but that's still a fair amount of space & that's just 1 person with simple tastes doing all the work
No way is a billionaire doing that
@bhasic @alemarcati @staringatclouds @CubeRootOfTrue @Beldarak @David
And modified home-brew EarthBox-style growing systems can give increased crop yields, with 3 harvests-per-year growing outddors, and 4-5 harvests-per-year indoors.
https://wickcuriosityshop.net/collection/plant-regulated-growing-system
Used globally, at current temperatures, they could increase growable land by ~40%.
@CubeRootOfTrue @Beldarak @David The lights don't last forever, equipment wears out, spares run out, reactors eventually burn all their fuel
So we'll need a scientific, industrial & even mining capability to keep things running
The climate isn't going to recover in a decade or two, if it ever does
People are going to be down there for lifetimes
We're effectively discussing building a "Generation Ship" either in a hole in the ground or in orbit
It's a huge task
@CubeRootOfTrue @Beldarak @David I just had a look at some lifetime stats for large US nuclear reactors
These are currently certified for around 80 years of operation, so call it a century before major work is needed to give it another century
No idea how long a mini one is supposed to last but I doubt it's any longer
@CubeRootOfTrue @Beldarak @David The fuel rods seem to last about 5 years before they need replacing
They've used about 10% of their fuel in that time & it's possible to reprocess them to make new rods
But eventually you'll need new fuel rods
You don't just plug it in & go forever
Then of course there's what do you do with all the highly radioactive waste which you need to get out of your bunker, as far away as possible & not close enough to other waste that it causes a radiation hazard
I was more thinking about underground habitats so humans aren't constantly in the heat.
You'd still be growing plants on the surface and I guess you could also go there.
But your house, office buildings etc... would be at -1 / -2 / -3 floor levels to be easier to cool down.
You could also farm mushrooms underground rather than vegetables, if the surface truly became unwalkable, but that's like absolute post-apocalypse scenario, we won't be there to live it.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying all this as a "oh, it's fine that we're destroying the planet, there are solutions".
Saving Earth is still the priority we should all work towards. But unless we get rid of oligarchs and current capitalism, I don't see it happening 😢
There are hope though. It seems tons of people are finally seeing that the current system doesn't work at all
@Beldarak @ELS @CubeRootOfTrue @David
There is indeed hope that the human species will survive* by abandoning endless economic growth and profit extraction, and by embracing cooperation and sustainability.
*it's just not clear how many of us will make it through the bottleneck
@petealexharris @Beldarak @ELS @David There is a bit of an education problem
We solved a global pandemic with novel mRNA vaccines because there were many smart people at NIH, back in the day
Next time you're on your own but thank heavens for the YouTubers who are doing DIY genetic engineering
@ELS @FelisCatus @CubeRootOfTrue @David
That or they know and don't care. Hard to say.
@Beldarak
That's my original point with the minister's comment.
Western oligarchies know. They're fine with culling the weakest and most vulnerable people. They've already started.
@ELS @FelisCatus @Beldarak @CubeRootOfTrue @David
Sealed off lunar lava tubes would be a better bet than Mars. There's plenty of sunlight on the surface to power the grow lights. Resupply is only four days away.
And while waiting for the harvest to come in they could stage basket ball games and put them on PayPerView to cover their expenses. I'd sure pay money to see basketball played on the moon. Wouldn't you?
@ELS @FelisCatus @Beldarak @David Just tell them we developed an AI that will take care of those problems. Haha jk. Yeah the problems are solvable. Actually solving them requires work.
It's frustrating that climate change has wiped out entire human cultures before, and nobody seems to remember or care, they think it's 1950 and Mom is in the kitchen making a casserole
@Beldarak @ELS @CubeRootOfTrue
"You'd still be growing plants on the surface"
You're missing one major point. If we have the technology to live underground by the billions we have it to live on the ground too (much easier and cheaper). However, the main issue of a planet 4 degrees warmer is not humans needing to live underground, it's mostly crop failure resulting to no food, wherever the population live above ground or not.
@ELS @Beldarak @CubeRootOfTrue @David
Most plants can be grown under artificial lighting. I only cited cannabis because it's something I know a little bit about. I'm sorry it went over your head. That was not my intent.
@ELS @Beldarak @CubeRootOfTrue @David
I never suggested that it’s possible to support the *entire* current human population by growing plants underground. Don't put words in my mouth. It's rude. It's dishonest. It's very bad form.
I didn't "pick a fight", I defended myself. If you don't like hearing people defending themselves, I'm not the only one. We're *all* easy to block.
Are you implying that whoever started a thread *owns* it? Is that a rule in the TOS or is it your opinion? I'm not trying to stat a fight with you. I'm genuinely curious. As an avid, though amateur, anthropologist I find self-government in subcultures to be absolutely fascinating. I haven't got this place figured out yet. I'm still sorting the mods' culture from the users'. There's a thesis in this. I'm too old to chase sheepskin, but a few of the younger scholars here should go for it. Research-wise, this place is a data point gold mine.
Fair point^^
Doesn't any new capacity comes with a cost? Like we sleep a lot because we're big animals with a complex digestive system? :P
@davidr @CubeRootOfTrue @David
Anyway, the infrastructure needed to live like that could only be financed by the same people that are rich enough to end hunger but chose not to, and are also responsible of most planetary issues...
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