TindraMay 27
Darren
Something I'm learning in my adventures in Linux is that it's vital to have a second, working computer with you in order to search for ways to fix the thing you've just massively broken.
May 27 at 7:09amWeb
Show threadDarrenMay 27

The previous toot brought to you by a man who just tried to install KDE Plasma on his ancient MacBook Pro running MX Linux, which somehow didn't install, well, anything apart from the menu panel, the cursor, and the file manager. I couldn't log out because the menu couldn't load, and because the menu couldn't load I couldn't open a terminal window.

God bless my working Mac.

(I right clicked a folder in the file explorer, opened it in a terminal window, then logged out from there)

Show threadDarrenMay 27
Apparently ctrl+alt+T will open a terminal window, but no one told my old MacBook that, because nope.
Show threadDarrenMay 27
My toot this morning has very much caught the attention of the Linux fingerers.
Show threadHcInfosecMay 27
@DJDarren we know what its like
Show threadDarrenMay 27
@HcInfosec Your alt-text is inaccurate. It says that the book is a joke one.
Show threadSamMay 27
@DJDarren Well you always know where to come for a social network full of Linux nerds who can help
Show threadDarrenMay 27
@sam Using the time honoured technique of posting the wrong way to do something then waiting for the corrections.
Show threadA Flock of BeaglesMay 27
@DJDarren that depends on which desktop environment you're using and how it's set up. that *might* bring up a terminal, but if things in KDE aren't working, and ctrl-alt-t isn't working, and it should work, i'm going to guess the system is probably overloaded and swapping like mad just to run your desktop, and things are breaking on the fly because there isn't enough RAM.
Show threadA Flock of BeaglesMay 27

@DJDarren i wouldn't expect modern KDE to work on that. how much RAM does the system have? KDE is very resource hungry, and always has been.

try MATE. and if that doesn't work, try XFCE. but MATE will probably work.

Show threadDavid CohenMay 27
@DJDarren Linux is actually a conspiracy by Big Tech to infuriate its users so theyโ€™ll buy a new computer with better support
Show threadSamMay 27
@davidbcohen @DJDarren The ASD Linux nerd in me wants to argue with this so hard. MUSTโ€ฆRESISTโ€ฆ
Show threadDavid CohenMay 27
@sam @DJDarren
Show threadFrischlingMay 28
@davidbcohen @DJDarren you mixed "Linux" with "windows".
Show threadCautionWIP- donโ€™t follow me - (he/him) ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ•ŽMay 27
@DJDarren Oh hells yah. I keep a couple of shit-boxes around for exactly that reason.
Show threadtootbruteMay 27
@Caution @DJDarren also, only linux can run those shit boxes. i couldn't imagine running windows 11 on 4 gb of ram.
Show threadDarrenMay 27

@tootbrute @Caution It blows my mind that a random Linux distro works better on my otherwise unused 14 year old MacBook than the last supported version of macOS.

I wish the trackpad drivers were better, but with a mouse it's a solid - if comparatively sluggish - experience.

That said, this thing does have 16gb ram, so it's not a complete shitbox.

Show threadtootbruteMay 27

@DJDarren @Caution nice...i have a 2010 macbook pro that runs linux pretty well too.

i also run nixos on a 2010 shitbook hp with 4 gb of ram...with GNOME and it runs. pretty impressive.

Show threadDarrenMay 27

@tootbrute I'm also running Mint on a 2011 Mac mini that currently only has 4gb ram. I don't do much with that one, but it does what it needs to do without any complaints.

My 'main' Linux machine is a '14 mini with 8gb soldered ram, and that thing is smooth as butter. Even more so now it's running the OS from an NVME M.2.

One person shouldn't have 5 computers, right? @Caution

Show threadCautionWIP- donโ€™t follow me - (he/him) ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ•ŽMay 27
@DJDarren @tootbrute Iโ€™m sorry, do they need to be working?
Show threadtootbruteMay 27

@Caution @DJDarren haha i have more than 5.

5 laptops
1 desktop
2 servers

Show threadLarryMay 27
@DJDarren @tootbrute @Caution
Five computers doesn't seem excessive. One with a large screen for movies in the living room, a laptop for vacations, a records and bookkeeping station, two to play BSD emulations on (32 bit and 64 bit.)
I had more, before, but these are the ones that give me joy.
Show threadDarrenMay 27

@quoidian One of mine spends 99% of its life on my desk at work, open and running InputLeap so I can fiddle with it without having to switch keyboard and mouse. I'm not even using it.

But I might.

@tootbrute @Caution

Show threadWalrus ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟMay 27

@DJDarren @tootbrute @Caution

Quite right. Five is far too few.

Show threadCautionWIP- donโ€™t follow me - (he/him) ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ•ŽMay 28
@Walrus @DJDarren @tootbrute If we count dead laptops that are gonna get fixed/ripped for parts, then weโ€™re gonna have to re-address that initial number..
Show threadWalrus ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟMay 28

@Caution @DJDarren @tootbrute

I have withdrawal symptoms for the ten Raspberry ฮ  machines I have mothballed, as we are about to move, some time.

Show threadJhooperMay 27

@DJDarren @tootbrute @Caution The quality of programming in a lot of OSes and production software has really gone downhill over the past decade. It used to be that developers had to take care to use as little resources as possible to squeeze the most performance out of everything, and now they don't try to do any of that because they assume you have a massive amount of resources at all times.

Doesn't matter if your computer is a Mac, Windows, or what have you. My gaming laptop will start running the fans at full speed when I launch Word or Advice PDF reader

Show threadDarrenMay 27

@jhooper I distinctly remember my 2011 Macbook Pro being whisper quiet when I first bought it brand new. By the time I gave up using macOS on it the fan was at full throttle all the time. Running MX Linux now, and I can't hear the fan at all.

Make of that what you will. @tootbrute @Caution

Show threadDavid CohenMay 27
@DJDarren @jhooper @tootbrute @Caution Thatโ€™s Intel processors, though. Even the new ones ramp up the fans all the time.
Show threadCautionWIP- donโ€™t follow me - (he/him) ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ•ŽMay 27
@tootbrute @DJDarren I couldnโ€™t imagine running windows. ๐Ÿคท๐Ÿฝ
Show threadDuncan BayneMay 27
@DJDarren As my boss is fond of saying "two is one; one is none". It's very true.
Show threadFish Id WardrobeMay 27

@DJDarren of course it's easier and cheaper to have that second computer with linux. And often you can just boot the same computer from a live usb/cd.

But you're not wrong.

Show threadDarrenMay 27
@fishidwardrobe The live USB is a good point, actually. Probably more cost efficient than keeping a whole-ass computer running.
Show threadFish Id WardrobeMay 27

@DJDarren it's better for some things, worse for others.

it does not, for example, help much with "is this a problem with my hardware"?

Show threadshamilbiMay 27
@DJDarren @fishidwardrobe SystemRescue
https://www.system-rescue.org/
SystemRescue - System Rescue Homepage

Show threadFish Id WardrobeMay 27
@shamilbi @DJDarren nice
Show threadwoollypigsMay 27
@DJDarren yup that's me, leave Debian (other Linux's are available) and it will run, poke it (because I thought I was smart) and I need another 'puter to search with ;)
Show threadDarrenMay 27

@woollypigs "I am Very Smart at Linuxes now, so I am going to make a thing work differently because I enjoy novelty and chaos. What could possibly go wrong?"

*narrator* Everything went wrong.

Show threadwoollypigsMay 27
@DJDarren are you looking over my shoulder?
Show threadMiniMia ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธMay 27
@DJDarren Me and Linux be like
(except an infinite amount of times)
Show threadDarrenMay 27

@fkamiah17 Oh, Linux is EASY!

First, you hate yourself. Then you find a piece of shit old computer, and, using a new computer, you spend hours researching which distro will work the best on the shitty old hardware that you don't really need because, well, you've got a new computer anyway.

Each distro is functionally the same, but the diehards like to argue about it all anyway because that's what makes us human.

You then install your chosen distro, and find that you've fucked something up.

Show threadVictor GijsbersMay 27
@DJDarren @fkamiah17 On the other hand, this weekend I installed dual boot Ubuntu on my son's Windows machine, and it was... totally painless?
Show threadDarrenMay 27
@victorgijsbers Well, apart from the bit where there's still a Windows on there. @fkamiah17
Show threadVictor GijsbersMay 27
@DJDarren @fkamiah17 It feels extra good when you choose Linux from the boot menu and thereby *not choose Windows*. ๐Ÿ˜‰
Show threadJoรฃo Tiago Rebelo (NAFO J-121)May 27
@victorgijsbers not wanting to burst your bubble, it works until Microsoft "updates" Windows and breaks his ability to choose "by accident".
@DJDarren @fkamiah17
Show threadtskMay 27

@jt_rebelo @victorgijsbers @DJDarren @fkamiah17 Yep. Also, even though MS is part of the Linux Foundation and Windows contains a "Linux" (lol), Windows will look at any Linux filesystem inserted and say "You must format this in order to use it", thereby encouraging users to wipe out the data they have. (Not everyone will get the significance of "format", esp. people under 45yo.)

More fun facts: The seemingly pointless arguing among Linux nerds is actually a battle for your digital soul, and in 4-12 mo time will be contemplating swapping out parts of your GUI, audio system, file system, etc. for others that (you think) will work better. Then after you show this mess to another Linux beginner, they will go insane and create a shrine to Apple or Microsoft.

Also, the only good Linux desktop is.... Android.
๐Ÿ˜…

Stay sane...

Show threadMiniMia ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธMay 27
@victorgijsbers @DJDarren OMG I *knew* if I replied to a Linux post I'd start a well-meaning Linux truther thread ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜˜
Show threadDavid CohenMay 27

@victorgijsbers @DJDarren @fkamiah17 Yes, and unfortunately thatโ€™s often an issue with Linux - one machine will be painless and the next one requires wading through Reddit forums all weekend and being insulted by others because you didnโ€™t compile the kernel to your microwave yourself.

I love that Linux exists (runs the Internet, after all), is free and makes good use of old hardware. But man, it can be hard work.

Show threadtskMay 27

@davidbcohen That's because PC users bring their Windows blindness to the FOSS world and assume that PC=PC=PC, the hardware is seen as a blank canvas (it is very much not). Then they will double-up on their Windows blindness and buy hardware regardless of whether the manufacturer has published Linux drivers or at least documented the hw. They'll continue to pour $$ into kit that is hostile to open source, while crying about the results in forums. The leader of this corner of FOSS (Linus) will even flip the bird and say "FU" to the hostile hw makers right on Youtube, the video will become a hit, and the Linux users will STILL not get the clue that they should shop for friendly/compatible hw.

It gets worse... the Linux users will insist hostile hw XYZ123 must somehow work, it just needs N more hours of trial and error...... not caring that the driver they are flogging is a reverse-engineering effort, i.e. a steaming pile of guesswork. The existence of this steaming guesswork makes XYZ products A-OK in the Linux user's mind.

Show threadMiniMia ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธMay 27
@DJDarren Well, I've done the first bit ๐Ÿ˜‚
(the shitty old computer has been sitting about 10 ft away from my desk for the last two years)
Show threadBroken Social GraphMay 27
@fkamiah17 @DJDarren wait, your entire house isn't full of shitty old half-working computers?
Show threadMiniMia ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธMay 27
@pikesley @DJDarren Not unless you want to reclassify books under that category ๐Ÿ˜‚
Show threadGaryMay 27

@DJDarren @fkamiah17 Yep.

And there's the added benefit that everything that used to run on the old ancient computer no longer runs because it was built for another OS. But... you saved the ancient piece of shit slow as molasses computer that belongs in a landfill.

Show threadJB.May 27

@DJDarren @fkamiah17

"Each distro is functionally the same, but the diehards like to argue about it all anyway because that's what makes us human."

It took me until about 5 years ago to get on this train. Just want an LTS with Flatpak support please.

Show threadNOS  ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ ยฎ๏ธ โœ๏ธ UMay 27

@DJDarren The real fun starts if you used a distro waaaay back, had certain experiences (this is easy, this is hard, how reliable it is, ...) and then you try to install it again.

Things have changed, *boom* now you argue with yourself!

Show threadirelephantMay 28

Each distro is functionally the same

going to be pedantic here and mention that android is technically a distro.

Show threadtootbruteMay 27

@DJDarren also, depending what you're doing...looking into an 'immutable' distro is might be helpful.

have you heard of Bluefin or Bazzite? most apps are flatpak. rollbacks possible. updates are image based.

https://projectbluefin.io/

Bluefin

The next generation cloud-native Linux workstation, designed for reliability, performance, and sustainability.

Show threadNazoMay 27
@DJDarren Or just keep a really stable setup on another small partition (Mint is great for this.)
Show threadGabriel PettierMay 27
@nazokiyoubinbou @DJDarren unless what you broke is grub, like me the other day ๐Ÿ˜† (a nasty 3rd party package broke my do-release-upgrade ๐Ÿ˜ฌ, live usb.+ chroot saved me ๐Ÿ™).
Show threadNazoMay 27

@tshirtman @DJDarren Two separate grub installs too. I guess that actually means install to another drive rather than partition though.

Even if I break grub in one I can boot the other.

But yeah, keeping a Ventoy flash drive around is always good.

Edit: Oh, and in fstab each has an entry for the other's partition, but set to noauto so they aren't even mounted. So filesystem damage from a crash shouldn't affect the other either.