Mastodawn

myrmepropagandist

"We should close the fish market it's too industrial"

This mentality in NYC drives me nuts. Markets are the whole purpose of even having a city. When you decide the *markets* are too industrial for the city you have totally forgotten what the point of the city even is. It's bad enough that most of the small manufacturing is gone. Everything can't be fancy shops, luxury condos and corporate headquarters.

Someone needs to make sandwiches for you or something. Come on.

myrmepropagandist May 27

I mean the coal pit and glue factory can go, as can the carwash. But all the markets should stay, really they should be supported and preserved.

Hugo Mills May 27

@futurebird The deeds of my house specifically say I'm not allowed to run a tannery or do any mining.

llewelly May 27

@darkling @futurebird
kids these days keep flunking geometry because there just aren't enough tangents any more, and now you know why.

Hugo Mills May 27

@llewelly I suspect that the neighbours would object me running a sinnery, too.

llewelly May 27

@darkling you'll have to be content with a cosy. Not illegal yet. Yet.

Mx Verda May 27

@darkling @futurebird If I get a tan, can it stay mine? ehhh, I tried

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK May 27

@darkling @futurebird I am not allowed to run any shop, supermarket, restaurant, licensed house (pub) or petrol filling station (very few of these would fit in the space of a small suburban house in England anyway with modern levels of traffic and parked cars around it)

JuneSim63 May 27

@vfrmedia @darkling @futurebird
My deeds are wider in scope. I can't run ANY business from my small bungalow.

gizmomathboy, FC May 27

@junesim63 @vfrmedia @darkling @futurebird we had to rezone our property from residential business ( several ceramicists loved here before is and sold clay and glazes plus a fuckall huge kiln) because getting a mortgage for it was a nightmare

Of course now that's zoned residential we can't run a business out of it. Not that we would

hanktank61 May 27

@futurebird Markets, like in streetmarkets or farmermarkets ?
In most of Europe they are still essential, the last remaining connection with organic and natural farming, and real food in general.
Not all stands are always 100 % all of that. There can be several cheese -or fish-sellers on one market. But always better than the supermarkets with their factory-food.

Austin Willis May 27

@hanktank61 @futurebird These are wholesale markets, primarily serving restaurants

Jonathan Hendry May 27

Cities should develop pop-up tanneries to deploy near scofflaws and tax dodgers and other nuisances.

Claire, The Ultimate Worrier May 27

@futurebird NIMBYs like "actually I would prefer to have less fresh fish to eat'

Val -> WPAFW24 May 27

@waitworry @futurebird
NIMBY A: "i don't eat fish, so this market is a waste of space!"
NIMBY B: "turning it into a parking lot would boost local businesses!"

Western Infidels May 27

@futurebird I don't think most of us would really be happy living inside a shopping mall, but that vision sure seems to be one that motivates the investors, the planners, and the developers these days. I'm thinking of (the publicized parts of) Dubai, "Neom The Line," and even stuff like NYC's Hudson Yards (which I have not actually been to).

Maybe it's an inevitable shift. If it's harder to get planning approval for small manufacturing or fish markets than it is to get planning approval for bland mall style shopping, then any sort of churn, turnover, or redevelopment is going to trend toward bland mall style shopping.

This makes me sound like some anti-zoning zealot but I swear I'm not.

@futurebird Well, at least cities still serve the purpose of increasing efficiency for Amazon drivers.

@futurebird As much of a food city as NY is, I'm surprised they haven't twigged on how the quality of the restaurants is tied to the availability and quality of markets.

lemgandi May 27

@futurebird Only true if people live and work there. If it's all investment property and oligarch pied a terre, human occupancy is irrelevant.

Kathmandu May 27

Some people seem to be emotionally invested in NYC as the place of affluent, successful 'professionals'. To the point where they want to drive out everything that isn't their own employers, their own apartments, or the restaurants they order from.

@Kathmandu @futurebird they do drive those out too, although I doubt they're self-aware about it

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺May 27

@futurebird
There's something similar happening in London, England - they are trying to close the centuries old Billingsgate and Smithfields fish and meat wholesale markers.
These are the last survivors of the old London that built itself on trade in physical stuff rather than the nebulous money markets.
The money men (and it will be men) believe there's money to be made in the land value rather than the heritage of a country.

They killed a working bell foundry in London too, yes? That made me sad halfway around the world.

@MikeFromLFE @futurebird

Cameron Purdy May 27

@futurebird But I bought property at a huge discount next to the fish market, and I'd like my property to go way up in value without having to do any work myself. Can't you just DO SOMETHING?

Malka Beth May 28

@futurebird whenever I get asked "do you miss living in NYC?" ....I always quickly say "no" .... my late grampa Georgy worked at a fish market from the age of 14 to 68 years of age ...and I'm glad he didn't live to see his beloved city become the mess I left it as under a decade ago!

*My spouse & I lived within the 5 boroughs for under 4 years & have thusly been in this semirural house for over double that time, having spent most of our lives in a northwestern suburb of NYC.

@futurebird
What does "too industrial" even mean here? Like, they don't like the shape or architecture of the buildings? Or, is it more of an interior design issue? (maybe the flooring needs more carpet)

@futurebird
If a fish market is too industrial then wait until they hear about rikers Island

Neville Park May 28

@futurebird oh man, this is one of my pet urbanism peeves. Toronto (once known as Hogtown, for pig processing) has policies about "employment lands", when areas designated for industrial use can be converted to residential/commercial. The more free-market (and, imho, uncritically pro-developer) type wonks in my circles are like "convert it to mixed use!" but like, if the real estate market crashes the city budget is fucked, maybe we should have something else going for us??? Also now that the U. S. is, well, gestures, protecting local industry makes a lot more sense.

Also when you allow industrial to be converted to commercial/mixed-use too freely you end up with, like, churchgoers complaining about the dust from the manufacturing facility next door and you're just like, "Complain to the people who wanted to build a church in employment lands."

/rant over

May Likes Toronto May 28

@nev Hilariously, the churches have been moving out to employment lands for decades. So many Chinese churches sold their space in residential neighbourhoods and moved into industrial parks.

Neville Park May 28

@mayintoronto @futurebird Haha, I have sat through way too many of these debates at City Council

plague-of-grackles 😷🍉🐈‍⬛May 29

@futurebird I wish the real estate ghouls’d go build another needle building on top of one of their needle buildings. Or, alternatively, vanish.