Orion Ussner kidder

Is the Empire, as depicted in Andor, fascist? I'm not convinced. It's authoritarian, totalitarian and bureaucratic, certainly.

But for fascism, you need a leader figure who's the focus of all the propaganda, and the Emperor is not that, and you need designated outgroups: Jews, disabled, trans, etc.

#StarWars #Andor #StarWarsAndor #TheEmpire #fascism #colonialism #totalitarianism #authoritarianism

May 26 at 5:22pmWeb
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
I think the Empire is what it says it is: an empire. Specifically, a colonialist one. Yes, it came up through a democracy and ate it, very fascist, but what it does with conquered/colonized worlds is suck them dry of resources, which is very colonialist.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
There are no hard borders between colonialism and fascism--and of course, many argue fascism develops out of colonialism, specifically the European kind--but I think Andor's view of the Empire leans towards a bureaucratized colonizer more so than a fascist state.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
What difference does it make, you might ask? Well, I think glossing over the bone-deep fascist prejudices against specific groups of people defined by race, gender and sexuality, ableism, and ideology presents fascism to us as simple tyranny rather than recognizing who it targets, whose lives it seeks to ruin, and therefore, who should be our top priority in aiding and supporting: queer & trans, women, Black, Latine, Jews, the disabled, and the list goes on.
Show threadfanf422d ago
@OrionKidder OK, it misses "turned inward" from "fascism is colonialism turned inward" ?
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder2d ago
@fanf42 I've read colonialism as European classism turned outwards, so this is intriguing. Can you expand on what you mean, here?
Show threadfanf422d ago

@OrionKidder it's unlikely by me, I think I saw it elsewhere but your explanation rang a bell.
The idea, iirc, is that colonialism is a form of imperialism that predates in some classes of people in the conquered land (typically, African black people slavery) and use of cruelty, dehumanizing, etc against them to make it OK with the dominant class moral.
Fascism does the same with classes inside the geographuc limits of the country itself. It points to some demographic groups as "less than humans".

OK, found it back: Zak Cope, "Geographically speaking, on its own soil fascism is imperialist repression turned inward"
I think i read it in "Fascism & Anti-Fascism
A Decolonial Perspective"

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ena-emaehkiw-wakecanapaew-kes-qnaeh-fascism-anti-fascism-a-decolonial-perspective

Fascism & Anti-Fascism

Ena͞emaehkiw Wākecānāpaew Kesīqnaeh Fascism & Anti-Fascism A Decolonial Perspective February 11, 2017

The Anarchist Library
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder2d ago
@fanf42 Very interesting. I will read this as soon as I can. Good old anarchist library!
Show threadfanf422d ago
@OrionKidder my pleasure, your analysis was very interesting, I missed that and used to see the empire as fascist, and I believe not anymore
Show threadLeia4d ago
@OrionKidder Aren’t they literally in the process of constructing that outgroup during the course of the most recent series?
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
@leiawelsh They're targeting the Gorm for strategic reasons, and there's no pre-existing prejudice against them. That's not the same as what Nazis did to Jews and queer people or what MAGA has done to Latine immigrants and trans people. I mean, it's definitely related, though!
Show threadLeia4d ago
@OrionKidder It’s certainly an interesting distinction. From before the Disney takeover the books and wider material always rather assumed the Empire was what I supoosed you’d have to call species-ist and I suppose I’ve just taken that as read as a result.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
@leiawelsh I think it is a really important distinction, yes. If we represent fascists, in our most popular media, as not being animated by prejudice, then we blunt our wider society's ability to recognize them, hence the present moment where a frightening number of people were I live (Canada, next to America) didn't seem to "get" that Trump was doing fascism from the start.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago
@leiawelsh Also, on the speciesism, I've heard that too, and I grant that it's on-screen if you want to see it: the Imperials are all humans, and the Rebels are somewhat more diverse (although mostly white people with the occasional non-human, but whatever). The thing is, it never comes up as part of the evil of the Empire. They're evil bc they want to control everyone through violence, but that's about it. They're oddly non-ideological in their evil, and that's a disservice.
Show threadLeia3d ago
@OrionKidder It's a strong argument. I wonder slightly why they haven't leaned into it more in live action, I consume so much of the wider material that I hadn't even NOTICED they hadn't.
Show threadCris Luengo4d ago
@OrionKidder The out group is all the non-human people. But fascism doesn’t require any of that.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder4d ago

@CrisLuengo I've heard this said--that the Empire is human-supremacist and the Rebels are species diverse--but it's never been brought up in any of the movies or other major productions (like, maybe it's in the comics or novels, but those are pretty far from the beaten path).

Fascists don't hide their hatred of outgroups. They talk about it all the time to stir up the anger and fear of the populace. The Empire doesn't appear to do that, but if there's an example I'm missing, let me know!

Show threadCris Luengo3d ago
@OrionKidder I think Rebels explores that a bit, but you are right, it is not as obvious as it could be.
Show threadOrion Ussner kidder3d ago
@CrisLuengo I honestly am not convinced it's even really there. It feels to me like there are aliens among the Rebels because the filmmakers thought they were cool, the same as why the bounty hunters were aliens and a robot. The Imperials are definitely *English*, but that's a whole other thing.