Mastodawn

Emeritus Prof Christopher May May 26, 2025

Much of the support for renationalising the railways was grounded in the hope that state ownership would reduce rail fares (which are among the highest in Europe);

however, it now seems that will be unlikely, as any extra cash saved by nationalisation will be spent on maintenance, infrastructure & increased services (which in fairness are also what the network needs).

But as fares are what voters most immediately experience, how will this play out?

#railways #politics
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqg73znzzeo

Labour cannot promise cheaper rail fares under renationalisation

Transport Secretary says she will "strain every sinew" so customers get value for money as SWR brought back into public hands.

BBC News

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺May 26, 2025

@ChrisMayLA6 While I'd love cheaper fares, more services and better infrastructure - I'm not convinced - as an occasional user of European trains - that British railways are as bad or as expensive as we make out.

Certainly if you rock up to the station today and expect to go to the seaside NOW you will be paying a LOT of money, but plan ahead (& buy a railcard) and there are a lot of affordable tickets to choose from.

We don't suffer from Germany's creaking infrastructure leading to huge delays and cancellations, or French mad timetables, bonkers luggage rules or surly staff.

Ticketing in Britain is over-complicated and desperately needs reform, but headline prices are misleading.

@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 "just plan ahead" is a tax on spontaneity. Your gran is taken ill and you need to get to the hospital quickly on the other side of the country so you can spend the last few hours with her? Hope you can afford it.

The purpose of public transport is to transport the public. Imagine if we had road pricing that required you to buy a discount card, and book slots on the motorway weeks in advance. They'd be riots. The same should be true for trains.

Colman Reilly May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 the seaside example is particularly ironic, given British weather.

Mike P May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 I get the impression that transporting the public is actually fairly low down on its list of priorities.

To some, the purpose of the railway is to deliver an inferior service to the plebs, so that car drivers can feel smugly superior to them.

Others see it as a method for funneling public money into private purses.

Still others use it mainly as a big stick to hit the government with, by the means of strikes.

Transporting people? Not a priority.

Quixoticgeek May 26, 2025

@FenTiger @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 then we need to fix that. The purpose of public transport is to transport the public. Everything else is secondary

Martin Gleadow May 26, 2025

@FenTiger @quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 and some within the industry are guilty of thinking the purpose of a railway is to play with trains, not move people and goods from where they are to where they want to be

Peter Brown May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 “Imagine if we had road pricing that required you to buy a discount card, and book slots on the motorway weeks in advance. They'd be riots. The same should be true for trains.”

That.
Exactly that.

Peter Brown May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 buses charge the same at peak periods. Why not trains?
In fact it is often a less pleasant journey as the train is standing room only.

Charging peak fares is operator-driven charging. Passenger-based charging would be fixed predictable fares, like on buses.

moomin_hattifatteners

@peterbrown @quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 They're getting rid of peak fares in Scotland from September. This is really interesting, as the Transport Scotland report on the trial ( https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/scotrail-peak-fare-removal-pilot-report-published/ ) concluded it didn't trigger as much modal shift as expected. But public transport should be there to transport the public, and it should be treated (and funded) as a public service, as far as I'm concerned. So... good. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8x8xe2140jo

Peter Brown May 26, 2025

@ravenbait @quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 I am pleasantly surprised it produced as much modal shift as it did. There was very little (no?) publicity around the change.
This time it should be supported by advertising aimed at commuters to encourage more modal shift.
When peak fares were restored the Greens produced an intense protest campaign and if they promote the reduced fares with anything like the fervour they protested their removal it would be ideal!

moomin_hattifatteners

@peterbrown As someone whose closest station is one of those re-opened after the Beeching Axe fell, but not until relatively recently, our fares are way more expensive than those from one of the nearest mainline stations, and the peak fares are WAY more. So I'm really pleased, and it will make it far more likely for me to choose the train.

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6

MarjorieR May 26, 2025

@peterbrown @quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 as a English national bus pass hoder you still have to pay to travel by bus before 9:30 in the morning. And, of course, for those who pay, the price also doubles if you need 2 buses for a journey.
And if you compare trains to planes rather than cars then when you book has a big influence on what you pay on planes too, often with even more aggressive surge pricing for late booking.
Not saying peak fares, singles being nearly the same as returns, and there being wildly different costs per mile on different routes are sensible pricing policies.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺May 26, 2025

@marjolica @peterbrown @quixoticgeek @ChrisMayLA6 Coach journeys are also priced using yield management.
It's a system that works tolerably well for flights with limited seats ( and you could say the same for coaches) but it's a poor pricing regime for most railway journeys.
I could live with a peak / off peak differential where there's heavy demand, but that's not true of many routes.

Peter 🔻May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Trains are privatized in the UK and some other European countries. It's public roads as they are payed by and for the public. Public transport should be the same, that's not the case anymore.

Quixoticgeek May 26, 2025

@pvdrijst @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 yes. But just cos something is one way now doesn't mean it can be another way in the future.

A lot of the arguments people present are summed up as "we can't have nice things, because currently we do not have nice things"

Things can be better, they should be better.

Peter 🔻May 26, 2025

@quixoticgeek @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Indeed they should.