Hello to all the wonderful Germans following this account 👋
Please, for the sake of humanity, use your vote today to stop the AfD.
Thanks to Germany's excellent proportional voting system, Germans have a wide range of parties to vote for and every vote counts towards the result. Voting for any party except the AfD will help to stop them by diluting their vote share.
If ever there was a time to vote, today is that day. This is your chance to make a difference.
EDIT: See voting tip in reply!
p.s. Important voting tip from many contributors:
1. Use first vote to choose your favourite candidate from those likely to win in your particular voting district. It doesn't matter if their party is small nationally, the candidate can still get in if they are popular in your district.
2. Use second vote to choose your favourite from parties likely to get over 5% of the vote.
If you do both these things, it will make your vote most effective 👍
p.p.s. Okay, polls have closed in Germany, well done to everyone who voted and let's hope for the best in the weeks to come as a coalition government is formed.
(For those wondering, I don't make a habit of posting about elections on this account. I'll only do one-off posts if there's some kind of historically dangerous situation.)
@FediTips @gumbario @[email protected]
The electoral system was recently reformed slightly.
The secondary vote (Zweitstimme) is the important one, as it determines the number of seats a party gets in parliament. It also determines how much state money a party gets for campaigning.
The primary vote is a majority vote to determine which person represents your district in parliament. If party A's candidate wins, the candidate will simply get one of party As' seats, instead of someone from the party list.
@FediTips @jssfr
That doesn’t seem correct.
The 1st vote is for the district representative - which is first-past-the-post and thus voting for a party that has a realistic chance of getting to the majority in the district is sensible - especially if it’s about preventing another party from gaining the seat. In some districts (such as mine) parties that have a small share of the national vote can still have a strong local footprint and there the 1st vote is a good way to support them - but that’s not true for most districts.
The 2nd vote is proportional, so there small parties will have as much a chance as those with a large vote share. Nonetheless the party still needs to cross the 5% threshold, so voting for a party polling at below 3% is not a great strategy if one would want to prevent the AfD from gaining seats.
Okay.... is this not correct?
@[email protected] @[email protected] You get a ballot with two columns. Left hand is the first vote, right hand is the second vote. The first vote is for a *person* associated with a *party*, which differs per voting district. The person with the most votes in that district gets a seat (or used to, see below). In any case, the first votes are only summarized up to the district level, then the winning candidate is chosen. The second vote is for a *party*. The second votes are summarized across the entire country. The second vote determines the ratio of seats the parties get. Before the last change of mechanics between 2021 and today, all candidates chosen via the first vote would get in unconditionally. That caused caused the parliament to get insanely large because the share of parties as determined by the second vote still had to be upheld. Example: if the target size of parliament was 500 and a party got 20%, but 110 candidates were elected via first vote, they would get 10 extra seats, which would then cause 40 extra seats to be distributed among the other parties to ensure the correct ratio (I hope I didn't make maths mistake here). That led to an insanely large parliament in the past, so it was changed so that extra directly elected candidates would not get into the parliament (the ranking of candidates which get in is based on number of votes, IIRC). Wikipedia has more details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestag#Election_system_(since_2023) And to elaborate on how that relates to what I wrote earlier: If a party has less than 5% share of second votes, it is barred from entering parliament, *unless* it has at least three directly elected candidates. So the first vote can be used to get a party in which would barely fail due to the 5% hurdle, but only if people coordinate in a district (because there it's winner-takes-all). The second vote is thus usually wasted on smaller parties and that only benefits the largest parties.
Just FYI I edited the tip thanks to feedback from you and several others. Thank you!
I'm going by info here, is this not correct?
@[email protected] @[email protected] You get a ballot with two columns. Left hand is the first vote, right hand is the second vote. The first vote is for a *person* associated with a *party*, which differs per voting district. The person with the most votes in that district gets a seat (or used to, see below). In any case, the first votes are only summarized up to the district level, then the winning candidate is chosen. The second vote is for a *party*. The second votes are summarized across the entire country. The second vote determines the ratio of seats the parties get. Before the last change of mechanics between 2021 and today, all candidates chosen via the first vote would get in unconditionally. That caused caused the parliament to get insanely large because the share of parties as determined by the second vote still had to be upheld. Example: if the target size of parliament was 500 and a party got 20%, but 110 candidates were elected via first vote, they would get 10 extra seats, which would then cause 40 extra seats to be distributed among the other parties to ensure the correct ratio (I hope I didn't make maths mistake here). That led to an insanely large parliament in the past, so it was changed so that extra directly elected candidates would not get into the parliament (the ranking of candidates which get in is based on number of votes, IIRC). Wikipedia has more details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestag#Election_system_(since_2023) And to elaborate on how that relates to what I wrote earlier: If a party has less than 5% share of second votes, it is barred from entering parliament, *unless* it has at least three directly elected candidates. So the first vote can be used to get a party in which would barely fail due to the 5% hurdle, but only if people coordinate in a district (because there it's winner-takes-all). The second vote is thus usually wasted on smaller parties and that only benefits the largest parties.
I've edited the tip by the way, sorry about that! Several others also clarified, thanks for the help!
To use your German federal parliamentary election votes to maximize your influence on who gets into parliament:
First vote: Which candidate is likely to win in your particular local voting district? If you like that person, vote for her or him. If not, vote for the person with second best chance.
Second vote: Which parties have a reasonable chance to get into the next parliament? Choose among those.
Deviations from this send political signals, but influence outcome less.
Yup, excellent explanation, adjusted the post to reflect it.
EDIT: You changed it. The current version is good.
Sorry, @FediTips , but your suggestion on what to do with your first vote is, I believe, the worst hint from you I've read thus far. With margin. (Which is to say I usually like what I read from you.)
A first vote for a party that has a tiny followership in your voting district and no reasonable chance to win that district is basically wasted, from an election-outcome point of view.
Well done for voting 👏
Brilliant! Fantastic! 👏
Well done! 👏
Yes! This is great! 👏
@FediTips
Please follow this advice, you can see the troubles in real time right now if you watch the disastrous results from the last US election.
The US democracy is fighting for its life right now and there are many signs that it is already dead, it just hasn't fallen over yet.
This could be your future or life's failures repeating itself if you are not careful.
> Voting for any party except the AfD will help to stop them by diluting their vote share.
I don't think that's true. If you vote for a party which gets less than 5% and less than three direct seats, your vote is proportionally redistributed among the parties which did — which likely means effectively 20% AfD.
So… Please use your second vote for a *democratic* party with realistic chances to get in and the first vote for a party which likely won't get to the 5% but you'd still like to see.
Nontheless: Voted earlier today, so there's that.
You get a ballot with two columns. Left hand is the first vote, right hand is the second vote.
The first vote is for a *person* associated with a *party*, which differs per voting district. The person with the most votes in that district gets a seat (or used to, see below). In any case, the first votes are only summarized up to the district level, then the winning candidate is chosen.
The second vote is for a *party*. The second votes are summarized across the entire country. The second vote determines the ratio of seats the parties get.
Before the last change of mechanics between 2021 and today, all candidates chosen via the first vote would get in unconditionally. That caused caused the parliament to get insanely large because the share of parties as determined by the second vote still had to be upheld. Example: if the target size of parliament was 500 and a party got 20%, but 110 candidates were elected via first vote, they would get 10 extra seats, which would then cause 40 extra seats to be distributed among the other parties to ensure the correct ratio (I hope I didn't make maths mistake here).
That led to an insanely large parliament in the past, so it was changed so that extra directly elected candidates would not get into the parliament (the ranking of candidates which get in is based on number of votes, IIRC).
Wikipedia has more details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestag#Election_system_(since_2023)
And to elaborate on how that relates to what I wrote earlier: If a party has less than 5% share of second votes, it is barred from entering parliament, *unless* it has at least three directly elected candidates. So the first vote can be used to get a party in which would barely fail due to the 5% hurdle, but only if people coordinate in a district (because there it's winner-takes-all). The second vote is thus usually wasted on smaller parties and that only benefits the largest parties.
@ives @jssfr @FediTips I’m assuming your question is in good faith, so here’s a wiki link which gives a high level answer to your question
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Germany
Germans elect their members of parliament with two votes. The first vote is for a direct candidate, who is required to receive a plurality vote in their electoral district. The second vote is used to elect a party list in each state as established by its respective party caucus.
Thanks! I've added a follow-up post, hope I've got this right:
https://social.growyourown.services/@FediTips/114053435332462030
Let me know if it's wrong, I can edit it.
I tried to make the original post as simple as possible, you have raised a really important nuance, thank you 🙏
p.s. Important voting tip from many contributors: 1. Use first vote to choose your favourite candidate from those likely to win in your particular voting district. It doesn't matter if their party is small nationally, the candidate can still get in if they are popular in your district. 2. Use second vote to choose your favourite from parties likely to get over 5% of the vote. If you do both these things, it will make your vote most effective 👍
Attention!
You are NOW in one of the freest countries in the world.
Let's make sure it stays that way!
Please vote.
Wondeful! Great to hear! 👏
Well done on voting anyway 💪
Thank you for voting to stop the AfD! 👏
Similar situation in many countries right now 😞
Perhaps some people are incapable of seeing danger until it hurts them specifically?
Hurrah! Wonderful! Brilliant to hear 🥳
Dr.Muesli
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