solidheronFeb 16, 2025

What does Lemmy think of Daniel Supernault or on mastodon?

https://lemmy.world/post/25636656

What does Lemmy think of Daniel Supernault or on mastodon? - Lemmy.World

So I managed to piss off Daniel Supernault so much that delete my loops account, blocked me on the loop discord, and probably blocked me mastodon because I called him out a lot for making no progress on loops. It’s a long story and I could post it to this group (subreddit?) if you’re interested I can tell the story and get any receipt I still have But im curious what the sentiment is about him.

Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025

because I called him out a lot for making no progress on loops

There’s your problem, right there. He doesn’t work for you. He’s made a bunch of stuff, and it’s up to him how fast he wants to make it, full stop. If you “called him out a lot” to the point that he blocked you on multiple platforms, the issue is 100% you, and you need to stop harassing the people who are making good stuff for us.

Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
It’s part of the long story but it started out when Dan promised to release the source “this weekend” 12 days ago with no published source code then it got pettier. If Dan didn’t make any promises I’d would have gotten bored and left. I would not describe my calling out as harassment, but I’d like to hear about the good stuff he did
Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025

It’s part of the long story but it started out when Dan promised to

Stop.

He doesn’t work for you.

He can stop working for a year, and not do shit, and that’s fine. Even if he promised you that it would take you to Mars by the weekend. Because it’s his work.

Stop harassing the people that make stuff for you for free. It doesn’t matter if it hasn’t met your service expectations. I don’t give a shit. No one owes you software for free.

Go buy software, if you want, then you can yell at someone in particular if it’s not meeting your expectations. It’s one thing to complain in a forum about some long-needed feature or something, that is more or less fine as you as you’re not overly objectionable or strident about it. Harassing one of the developers personally is fucked.

Edit: I should say, also, that Dan seems from what little I’ve seen of him to be a little more susceptible to this stuff because he genuinely does get upset about stuff sometimes, or over-promise, and has like 5 different projects going on at any given time. People may have a little more legitimate reasons for him, compared to other developers, to write a little essay about how he is “problematic” in some regard. Personally, I don’t give a shit. He is allowed not to be perfect in his social media postings or his commitment to meeting his self-imposed deadlines to give software to people or whatever else. He’s giving you stuff for free. Give him a break. He’s fine. If he’s causing some actual problem, then of course we can talk about it, but if he just has some perfectly ordinary human failing or imperfection, in the course of writing great stuff for you, then allow him to do that without declaring him as an official enemy now because it’s fun. Because he is working for you for free to help build stuff he thinks is important.

Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
Again I never said he worked for me and I clarified I called him out for a promise he made. I’ll made it simple so you what you say reflects some understanding of what I saying. Plus you don’t even know 2% of the story
Show threadPhilipTheBucket

I clarified I called him out for

Stop.

I pretty much said it already. There’s an edit up there with some additional thoughts. The deadline was self-imposed and you don’t need to call him out for a god damned thing.

Feb 16, 2025 at 5:11amWeb
Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
Yeah now I have to explain why I called him out to you because you don’t understand that guess you’re trying to convince me on something I did is wrong without context with “don’t need”. I’m willing to tell the story but no one wants to hear it
Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025
Because it literally doesn’t matter. As soon as the story starts with “I called him out a lot for making no progress,” the issue is you.
Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
I’ll hear you out can you explain with only the context I’ve given you btw I only told two people the entire story. Why calling him out is the issue. Let’s put you on the spot and watch you crumble
Show threadactionjboneFeb 16, 2025

Calling him out his criticizing him. Full stop.

I don’t even know who he is, and I can tell he isn’t the issue.

You seem unable to recognize that you are not owed anything.

Anything he said is irrelevant.

Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025

“Calling him out his criticizing him”

Run your shit shit through an ai and let it pick something something coherent. You can’t even make a case why calling him out is an issue

Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025

Sure thing.

Hey, what’s your take on this thread? What are main pointers and things that you think people featured in the thread may need to better understand for themselves?

After analyzing this thread, here are the key observations and points for reflection:

Communication Dynamics and Expectations:

  • The OP repeatedly “called out” a FOSS developer (Daniel Supernault) for perceived lack of progress and unfulfilled promises about releasing source code
  • Many community members pointed out that public criticism and repeated confrontation isn’t a constructive approach, especially with volunteer developers

 

Understanding of FOSS Development:

  • There’s a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of free/open source software development
  • Several experienced developers in the thread explained that FOSS developers:
  • Are not beholden to user-imposed deadlines
  • Can work at their own pace
  • Don’t owe users specific deliverables, even if previously promised
  • May have multiple projects and personal commitments

 

Areas for Growth:

  • For the OP:
  • Need to understand the difference between constructive feedback and harassment
  • Could benefit from learning about FOSS culture and etiquette
  • Might need to reflect on their approach to communication and expectations management
  • For Daniel (the developer):
  • Could improve communication around timelines and manage expectations better
  • Might benefit from being more careful about making specific promises about release dates

 

Community Response:

  • The community showed strong unity in defending FOSS developers’ right to work at their own pace
  • Demonstrated clear boundaries about acceptable behavior in the FOSS community
  • While firm, many responses tried to be educational rather than purely confrontational

 

Broader Lessons:

  • The importance of maintaining constructive dialogue even when frustrated
  • The value of understanding the volunteer nature of most FOSS work
  • The need to balance enthusiasm for projects with respect for developers’ time and autonomy
  • The significance of managing expectations in open source communities

 

This situation reflects common tensions in FOSS communities between user expectations and developer capacity/priorities. Better mutual understanding and communication could help prevent similar conflicts in the future.

Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
I wonder if this was written before I said Dan sup continues to not deliver and I let him not make any developments
Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025

Here’s OP’s response:

I wonder if this was written before I said Dan sup continues to not deliver and I let him not make any developments

What’s your take on that? Does it change your assessment?

No, this doesn’t substantially change my assessment. In fact, OP’s response reinforces some of the key issues I identified:

  • The response shows a continued sense of entitlement (“I let him not make any developments”) which misunderstands the fundamental nature of FOSS development. A user doesn’t “let” or “not let” a developer work on their own projects.

  • Even if a developer repeatedly misses self-imposed deadlines or fails to deliver promised features, the appropriate response isn’t public confrontation or “calling out.” More constructive approaches could include:

    • Offering to help with development
    • Politely asking for status updates
    • Finding or creating alternatives
    • Simply moving on to other solutions

  • OP’s response suggests they’re still viewing this through the lens of consumer/service provider relationship, when FOSS development (even when crowdfunded) operates under different social and practical dynamics.

  • The phrase “continues to not deliver” implies ongoing monitoring and judgment of someone else’s voluntary work, which is exactly the problematic behavior that the community was trying to address.

    • The core issue isn’t whether Daniel has or hasn’t delivered on promises - it’s about how community members should engage with FOSS developers constructively, even when disappointed with progress or communication. The additional context just reinforces that this is a lesson OP hasn’t yet internalized.

    Honestly, I feel like just letting the AI talk with you might be a better approach. It is more patient about it than I feel like being. I’m sort of done with the conversation at this point. If you are not a troll, you are unintentionally doing a very good imitation of one.

    Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
    Oh smart you really did use AI. which ai are you using
    Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025
    Yes, that was what you wanted. It’s Claude.ai, it’s generally quite good.
    Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
    Yeah I liked the formatting. I stick to perplexity.ai and chatgpt. I think I use Claude when I develop a fediverse app, but it kept writing over code and undoing progress for Android studio so I gave up and that’s the start prelude into the story behind calling out dan
    Show threadjonathanFeb 16, 2025
    You got wrecked.
    Show threadPhilipTheBucketFeb 16, 2025

    Are you asking me to explain why chasing after someone who’s writing a bunch of software for you for free, because they didn’t meet your expectations, to the point that they block you, is wrong?

    Like I say, I honestly think you just need to grow up a certain amount before you interact directly with people who develop fedi software, because you clearly just think this is okay and are genuinely surprised at the unanimous crowd of people telling you that it is not.

    Dan, like a lot of people, is a human being. He’s allowed to miss deadlines or make angry posts on social media that he then feels bad about after. You’re not allowed to chase after him and treat him like you’re in some kind of position to be judging how well he’s performing. I have stopped working on projects before, because of people interacting with me in a way that rubbed me the wrong way and I just didn’t feel like subjecting myself to it. Having ingrates like you squalling at the fedi developers about how they need them to start meeting all the deadlines or they’re going to “call them out a lot” is going to drive people away from developing free software. Don’t do that. I keep telling you: I do not care about the further context. You are already wrong, when you are demanding anything at all in the manner that you’ve described.

    Show threadsolidheronFeb 16, 2025
    Nope not at all. Hint read my post