So maybe I should just give up on #anarchism and call myself #libertariansocialist?
If it weren't for the fact that I see #libertarianism as a way of depriving people from the protections of law, protections that given us boundless goods.
I believe in a system of law and governance that ASSURES power from the ground up. One that is resilient against feudalism, nationalism, imperialism and all forms of anti-collective engines that seek to consolidate power.
@yianiris ...what's that got to do with oligarchs usurping land, property and markets by making law a limp dick?
The idea behind #libertarianism simply states that the markets shall decide and the government's only job is to keep and maintain law on a minimal basis. But whose law? How are the powers divvied up?
Saying "the markets shall provide" is exactly what US oligarchs and imperialists want, because if they control most property and money already, libertarianism is just their lil bitch.
@yianiris first you'd have to break libertarianism and make sure that people after the fact for generations don't sell off their property to centralized ownership once more, because then you'll just see a return of the oligarchy.
When law is then subverted and changed to favour the rich, which always seems to happen, the system only serves the rich - again!
And then when they are only ones with guns, welcome to pure #capitalist #feudalism.
If that's what you want, then libertarianism it is.
@yianiris with #LibertarianSocialism you can have cake and eat it too.
For instance, bring back cooperative companies ffs - especially when it comes to energy. You should have to buy a stake in an energy company that operates in an area, or the water company, and no one can own a bigger percentage or be an outside investor.
In this model, the ones who own the companies are also it's clients, and you being more concerned about having access to clean water and cheap electricity trumps all.
@yianiris the governments laws would have to mandate this to be the case though, and in a couple of decades, it shouldn't be needed for energy companies - because fusion.
But for water? Fuck off, and fuck #Nestle. In a perfect #libertarian society you'd be Nestle's little bitch and you couldn't do a thing about it.
Take your #bananarepublics, #CocaCola in #Columbia, or any company that has subverted and abused the local populace.
This is what pure libertarianism would enable.
@yianiris pure #libertarianism results in #privatising #power via #oligopoly.
As a #European you should read up on the #barons and the #aristocracy. Note, that whereas some aristocrats were appointed by royalty, others were made noble because they were so "successful" - i.e they were barons sanctioned by the crown.
The barons who hated the crown? Those were the #liberalists. In essence, people like to forget that part of European history because it doesn't suit their ideology or agenda.
@hopland It is funny you mention history in the discussion, yet you refuse to see the history of libertarianism since 19th century, one of the ideological children being CNT in Spain, which by early 20th century achieved a membership of 1.5mil workers and farmers, none ever recording a complaint of inequality within its parts, being the backbone of resistance against the invasion of Franco into Spain (with the support of Nazi Germany and the US ... clearly).
On the other hand this ridiculous construct with finite origins within circles of industrial capital and think tanks like Ayn Rand, deep-dark funding to propel it to academia, in the anti-comm 50s. An artificial pseudo-ideology just to grab and distort the meaning of what libertarianism stood for. Together with other pseudo-political philosophies as anarcho-capitalism, minarchism, and neo-liberalism.
@yianiris again, libertarianism could work... if property was properly decentralized, and though it may have worked at some point in time, due to modern day oligopoly it would just lead to capitalist feudalism.
Communism could also work in theory, if property was decentralized, but will only lead to totalitarianism if done through a central party. The issue here being centralization of property, intellectual property and economy.
@hopland > Communism could also work in theory, if property was decentralized, but will only lead to totalitarianism if done through a central party. The issue here being centralization of property, intellectual property and economy.
You have to read, not social media, but actual books and articles written for a century and a half on the subjects. It is rather obvious, or you are making it be, that you are lacking essential core/basic reading on libertarian, anarchist, marxist, bibliography.
You and many others are falling for "populism" which is what those pseudo theories are, irrational systems of thought that lead nowhere but a fanatic opposition to what you don't understand and as soldiers of defending good old capitalism.
Inequality can not be maintained other than with organized violence, therefore a state, or reactionary armies of industrialists (1850s - 1920s). So pro-capitalist anti-state is irrational, unless the ultimate of gangster violence is to prevail, then you revert to feudalism, industries would fail.
Thor A. Hopland
yianiris