Mastodawn

Hey smarthome peeps, I need some help. I'm looking for recommendations on a smart switch. US power grid here.

The switch is for a box that doesn't have a neutral wire. The circuit also needs to remain powered at all times because it has Hue bulbs on it. Since we don't have any Z-wave or ZigBee devices (aside from the Hue bulbs themselves) I'm not sure if a ZigBee or Z-wave switch would work, but every WiFi-only switch seems to phone home to a central server.

Currently we have about five of these Kaufman RGB switches that were built using ESP modules, but they require a neutral wire so we can't use them everywhere.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

#HomeAutomation #SmartHome #HomeAssistant

KAUF RGB Switch – Kaufman Home Automation

Rusty Corgi Jan 30, 2025

Side note because I'm sure it's going to come up, when I say there's no neutral wire I mean there's no dedicated neutral for the switch box. There is a hot and a load and that's it, the load being the neutral for the light circuit. The wiring is old.

Mershark Calyo Lucere-Delphi Jan 30, 2025

@Rusty Wait, by "neutral" are you referring to a ground wire? O.o

Ret Jan 30, 2025

@dragonarchitect @Rusty used to be pretty common here to have no neutral (blue in the EU/UK, white in the US) at lightswitches. Just an in and out.

Rusty Corgi Jan 31, 2025

@ret @dragonarchitect Yeah, the national US electric code didn't require a neutral in our light switches until 2011, granted we have a patchwork of different electrical codes across the country so some places have required a neutral for a lot longer or still don't require one at all.

Rusty Corgi Jan 30, 2025

@dragonarchitect No. A ground wire is its own thing.

Ideally, a light switch should have a:

- Hot/Line-in
- Load (the line going to the light bulbs before going back to the electrical panel)
- Neutral (a direct return path to the electrical panel, no lights)
- Ground

In this case, the switch box only has a hot and a load. There's no ground or neutral.

Ret Jan 30, 2025

@Rusty I think Wi-Fi neutral-less switches are pretty unusual because of the power they require. Might be wrong about that but most neutral-free options I find are Zigbee or Z-Wave or some other low-power radio.

Might be easier to grab a Zigbee dongle and just bite the bullet with a Zigbee network. The nice thing about it is you can get switches that will run from a coin cell for 2 years+ with zero mains wiring.

Rusty Corgi Jan 30, 2025

@ret At that point I'd probably just grab some Hue dimmer switches and call it a day. I was kind of hoping since the circuit would have to remain powered there was some magical trickery a wifi switch could pull, but I'd imagine putting a load on that part of the circuit would fuck some stuff up regardless.

Magnus Hedemark Jan 30, 2025

@Rusty you don't mention what country you're in, but if you're in the US, #Inovelli has you covered.

Rusty Corgi Jan 30, 2025

@magnus Oop, good point. Added my country.

I really liked the look of Inovelli switches but they require a neutral bypass if you don't have a neutral wire which seems to be sold out. I couldn't find a suitable alternative.

Trip Jan 31, 2025

@Rusty If you're okay with not being able to use the switch to actually disconnect power to the bulbs, you could wire the circuit to bypass the switch and go with the Hue Wall Switch Module. It's a bit of a spendy option, but it won't need an additional hub and the module is battery powered so no neutral is no problem.

Rusty Corgi Jan 31, 2025

@trippytiger I'm still kinda confused by those. Wouldn't you have to turn the circuit off in order to change the batteries?

Trip Jan 31, 2025

@Rusty Nope, you bypass the switch and just wire the line and load together, and then you connect the Hue switch module to the terminals on the switch. The switch just controls the Hue module and the lighting circuit is permanently on. I'm not a huge fan of that approach TBH, but it does provide a solution to your problem.

Rusty Corgi Jan 31, 2025

@trippytiger Oh derp, yeah I misunderstood how those work. Still seems weird to put something battery powered behind a switch since to change it since you'd still have to unscrew the plate and the switch. I think I'd rather just put a Hue Dimmer Switch with one of these style of plates over the wall switch.

blobfoxthinkgoogly

Unless there is some kind of specific advantage to the modules.

Amazon.com

Trip Jan 31, 2025

@Rusty The only real advantage is that it looks nice. I have a couple of those cover plate holders and it makes the Hue switch stick out so far which looks pretty silly, but if you don't mind that then they're fine.

Rusty Corgi Jan 31, 2025

@trippytiger I put em in a couple places back at my parent's house. They look kinda silly, especially on a multi-gang switch, but I don't think it's too bad

Tamasdrgn Jan 31, 2025

@trippytiger @Rusty such a clever lil kitten

ShinoPuppy Jan 31, 2025

@Rusty I don't think you can - that neutral is pretty non-negotiable.

One thing I was thinking of though, is that the neutral has to be *somewhere* - no one runs just the hot line on it's own. If you're able to get into the wall around the switch box, and (with the breaker off obviously) cut and bring it into the box, you might be able to pigtail it into the switch. Dunno if that would violate code though.

Rusty Corgi Jan 31, 2025

@ShinoPuppy They make smart switches that work without a neutral.

Not having a neutral is actually remarkably common as light switches weren't required to have them in the national electrical code until 2011. The boxes only had a hot and a load.