Charles ☭ says trans rightsBluesky users: For a mere $30million USD, we can distribute Bluesky to one other node
Fedi users: I put an instance on my car!
Jons Mostovojs
Preston Maness ☭
Scott Williams 🐧@aspensmonster @jonn @celesteh Y'all, please untag me if you're going to have this discussion. I am not a communist. I have no interest beyond the specific OP and am not endorsing anything here.
This went into my filtered notifications (along with a very large number of notifications) and so I've just seen this. I'm sorry for not removing you from tags sooner.
davel 🚫@aspensmonster A 
really seems to be haunting him more that anyone I’ve come across in the fediverse:
“““If you use tools made by genocide-apologists, you are a genocide-apologist.
#lemmy users aren't welcome here.”””
100 GORILLION DEAD NO IPHONE
wraptile@aspensmonster ofc it's a fat white dude from Texas who's pushing the glory of Soviet empire lmao
You can't make this up 🙄
@wraptile Do you have any other questions or comments for the fat Texan commie that recognizes the contribution of the Red Army in defeating fascism?
@aspensmonster nah dude but try to enjoy your fan fiction in your own room 😌
Ramin HonarySoviet swastikas XD If it weren’t for the Red Army you’d still be living under the banners of actual swastikas.
@aspensmonster you mean “in spite of the Red Army’s best efforts,” because we are absolutely living under the hidden banners of swastikas. Well, mostly hidden, until Trump was first elected. The CIA imported actual Nazi officers to help fight against the USSR just as soon as World War 2 ended (see “Operation Sunrise“, and “Operation Paperclip“). The US government has, in effect, been run by Nazis ever since. We were taught in schools that American defeated the Third Reich, in actual fact, we assimilated it.
@aspensmonster @jonn @vwbusguy
Antisemitism is not an essential feature of communism. Stalin was just a bigot and I'm not endorsing or defending him by using a symbol also used by ancoms.
When the Unicode consortium includes the flag of the Jewish Labour Bund, I'll switch to that. If the complainer is Jewish or GRT: sheesh.
But if they're not, they can fuck all the way off. Honestly, offensive.
You are endorsing soviet union by using soviet swastika, my dude.
I have a low degree of compassion for clueless westerners who never lived in that country, so I appreciate to a low degree that you aren't a fan of stalin. Buuuuut it's not like he invented soviet concentration camps. Gulag programme is known to have started by early 20s.
It's cute that you're willing to drop the swastika some time soon! But if you care about antisemitism, please study antisemitism in ussr. It's not "just stalin"!
In the old country we had quotas for Jews enrolling into unis, and special ghetto universities for overeager Jewish people. Also, there was an attempt at an actual dedicated ghetto called Yevreyskaya autonomnaya oblast (created after 1924, but, you know, it still exists).
But most importantly – throughout the entirety of the history of the country which flag you proudly fly, there was systemic oppression of common folk of different countries russians have colonised by forced displacement, which was also quota'd!
Displacement was organised in cargo trains (even though it was supposed to be passenger trains by decree, but that's another russian trick – "tzar is kind, it's the vassals who are the problem") and mortality rates on these trains was tens of percents. Displaced people were replaced by russians.
I think, if you have some empathy, you can understand why I call your fave Unicode codepoint "a soviet swastika" now? 🤔
@jonn I'm Jewish, you tedious twit. Fuck off
@celesteh me too. Did you also live in soviet union?
Dominik@jonn @celesteh It's pointless. The "communists" literally murdered people here as an official business (in addition to all the frequent accidents) and even our country has plenty people who would welcome them back.
I can only imagine that people who safely watch that across the ocean are even easier to fool with selective half-truths and propaganda.
@aspensmonster @vwbusguy @celesteh I hope that one day you will live in an equivalent of soviet union (your country is well on its way). When you do, please report back on how easy or hard will it be to procure insulin! 😂
@aspensmonster I'm with you! But don't have to be a communist to be anti-capitalist!
You may argue that being anti-capitalist automatically makes you an intersectional communist, then sign me up, but marxism-lenibism is like... Demonstrably hateful ideology which converges to authoritarianism isomorphic to fascism.
And the problem is in the communist manifesto itself. If you don't set precise and concrete parameters for distinguishing bourgeois from proletariat and call for violence *not against the property* even, but against human beings, then your criteria degrade and the guy with the rifle becomes the proletarian and everyone without a rifle becomes a bourgeois.
@jonn You can call yourself anti-capitalist if you like. Rejecting the only forms of anti-capitalism that have ever worked as "actually that's just authoritarianism which is the same as fascism" is a choice that you are not alone in making at least. Marxists however will continue to deal with reality as it presents itself and work within it to build socialism.
@aspensmonster Preston "Citation Needed" Maness.
Btw, I was responding to your america-centric take! Actually, procuring insulin is trivial in like... Normal countries. 🇪🇺
@jonn >Btw, I was responding to your america-centric take! Actually, procuring insulin is trivial in like... Normal countries. 🇪🇺
As if procuring insulin is only difficult in the United States.
@aspensmonster you will be surprised.
https://www.insulin100.eu/country-profiles-latvia/
Here is what, to quote your silly toot, "the poorest countries have managed to achieve". 😆
@jonn you have a lot of national chauvinism for someone concerned about colonialism :(
Caoilte O'ConnorBeing anti-capitalist doesn't automatically give you the tools to effectively oppose or replace capitalism. A good intentioned hatred of USSR/Communism/capitalism etc would only prepare any anti-capitalist leader for repeating Soviet mistakes in the face of inevitable capitalist assault.
Where does the Communist Manifesto call for violence against human beings? I can't find any reference. Any document can be willfully mis-read to suit any agenda.
@caoilte I wouldn't dare to read it today, but you're kind of saying the same as I, except I claim that the document is willfully non-specific (probably some sort of extremism rules existed then), and you claim that I'm misreading it.
I distinctly recall that they were referring to French revolution as an example of a revolution, which clearly and irrefutably defines a possible scope of what they had in mind.
The document has many problems and is riddled in non-sequitur and straw-man, but most importantly, it fails to distinguish the classes in any meaningful way.
Also, what I will never forget is them explicitly saying that it's ok for peasants to have a house and a field (their rationale was idiotic, sadly I can't reproduce it because I find it difficult to memorise idiotic things), but apparently it's okay only until the "State" runs out of the collective "money" and needs some kolhozes (see collectivisation in ussr). 😆
I would prefer to end this conversation at that, if it's okay ❤️
(Feel free to respond, but it's very likely that I shan't).
@jonn [1/2] Since you want to end this conversation, I'll skate the details and focus on thoughts for growth.
You're a product of indoctrination, but that's okay - we all are. A challenge in life is to recognise the inconsistencies in our self identity and to understand when it expresses itself as hypocrisy. For example: calling @aspensmonster Preston "Citation Needed" Maness, without ever feeling the need to check whether a book you're trying to summarize says what you think it does.
@jonn @aspensmonster [2/2] You made a statement in error and I corrected it. Rather than engaging responsibly with the subject you re-imagined your position, tried to change the subject and then shutdown the conversation. I think subconsciously you know you are wrong (repeatedly admitting you don't want to re-read a document is a tell).
Self examination is a long road, I suggest avoiding complaining about things like the hammer and sickle until you're ready to engage with the subject.
@caoilte ah, quite provocative! I'll take some time to demonstrate logically (in abstract terms) and historically (in concrete terms) that the manifesto says what I think it says by the end of the year.
Please understand that reading this stuff is kind of like reading English propaganda from the years of the Troubles for you (based on your surname, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. If I'm right – Erin go Bragh)
@jonn I don't doubt that Marx can be interpreted to say what you intend. And I'm sure that the USSR also interpreted it to suit their policies. Hell, generally every book gets reinterpreted by the next generation. It's good to recognise such biases and to study texts as products of a particular time and place rather than as some eternal totemic shibboleth. Regardless, i hope you enjoy the process of ordering your thoughts.
> a book you're trying to summarise
I am certain that you are confusing communist manifesto with das kapital! In the country where I was born which no longer exists, people had to read both. (I did)
@aspensmonster this comment was mostly to demonstrate that if you answer with some substance like @celesteh did, you get a response with some substance and empathy. If you just talk shit, you only get best wishes.
It's also quite hilarious how clueless westerners are! My entire fucking family was killing nazis and facilitating killing nazis. Did we get weapons from the reds? Yes. Did the reds make the weapons from American metals? Also yes. Did they give us weapons because they wanted to have the way cleared and enslave the rest? You fucking betcha.
Next time you wonder "why do Polish people not like me" (I'm not Polish, but it's not like you are likely to know the difference), look up Warsaw uprising and look up how soviets were involved with it. And where their army was as they were waiting for Poles and germans to cancel out.
P. S.
You are a clown ❤️
@aspensmonster @celesteh please think about how colonial your response is and how hateful the idea that working class people have less just because they are at a doorstep of one country or the other. Realise that you're a bad communist and, you know... Do the other thing people who dislike each other online tell each other to do 🙇
@aspensmonster @jonn @celesteh Imagine a communist cheering for a dictator. You sir, in addition to being clueless about how pretty much anything works, are a fraud.
Nico 
@aspensmonster @jonn @vwbusguy @celesteh Clearly you think that symbol means equality. Maybe ask someone that lived under that symbol and will tell you…. If they don’t have PTSD from being afraid to have a normal conversation because of that symbol.
As things goes CPPP and USA aren’t that different they both fucked their citizens up the arse. One used lube. That’s the small difference
As things goes CPPP and USA aren’t that different they both fucked their citizens up the arse. One used lube. That’s the small difference
@Illdisposed @jonn @vwbusguy @celesteh there are over a billion people "living under" that symbol now. Perhaps they prioritize building a society that guarantees modest prosperity for all over liberal notions of "free speech."
@aspensmonster ah! A tankie! That explains so fucking much. ❤️
What is it with commies and passion for countries with concentration camps.
I upgrade my insulin wish to surviving a trip to one such correctional facility, my man ❤️
@jonn I find re-education a preferable alternative to getting mired in fruitless wars on terror, but to each their own.
@aspensmonster @jonn Do you even know what reeducation meant in the former soviet block countries?
Let me put it in layman’s terms: the book 1984 when we were finally allowed to read it it wasn’t anything special, it was just normal
@aspensmonster @jonn @vwbusguy @celesteh Perhaps?? Mate socialism is like statistics one works hard but the party has to make the brown nose equal do the hard working man.
But DO explain to me, a person that lived under the regime how great it is for prosperity. Please do. Might tell my relatives as well, oh wait they’re dead because of so much prosperity and so much free speech
China's efforts at building a moderately prosperous society in all respects have worked well for them. They've adapted a model of socialism with chinese characteristics that allows some to build wealth faster than others, thus building up their productive forces, while retaining political control within the party. Whether that approach will work long-term is debatable; it's a tightrope that exposes their society to corrosive contradictions and leaves them vulnerable to takeover by a nascent bourgeoisie if they aren't careful.
Even the USSR, our species' first significant attempt at socialism, had its successes along with its failures. They built out an industrialized society to rival the US from the husk of feudalism, perhaps moving away from the NEP too soon if China's theory of developing the productive forces pans out. The shock therapy that was applied when the union fell saw massive declines in standards of living that took decades to recover from.
I live in the belly of the beast of capitalist empire. I live where it is supposed to be a paradise. If capitalism can't work for all here, then it can't work for all anywhere. I'm not aiming for perfection. I'm aiming for better than capitalism. And socialism has proven the most promising approach so far.
@aspensmonster @jonn @celesteh I can see you’re living in denial. You’re either ignorant or just very stupid if you ignore what China does to their citizens. Or maybe you’re just a paid up member vomiting idiotic facts when faced with reality. I tend to thing the latter. Also you’re avoiding everything I said because you know you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about when comes to socialism
or comunism because you HAVEN’T lived it you ignorant fucking fuckity fuck
or comunism because you HAVEN’T lived it you ignorant fucking fuckity fuck
@aspensmonster @jonn @celesteh to summise: You’re an ignorant moron that ignores the historic facts.
There I saved a lot of time for everybody involved
@aspensmonster @jonn @celesteh You’re just a copy paste machine you fuck twat. And yes every time some one punches a nazi they should punch a communist as well.
Just for the social equality you absolut cluster fuck of copy paste machine
Cătă@Illdisposed @jonn @celesteh typical US-centrist delusional people, thinking that if they get rid of capitalism and democracy altogether, then milk and honey will flow through their sinks, and everyone will have a job and a house, and we would all be happily chanting odes praising the single-party for all the goodies they supposedly will receive. If someone puts a symbol they don't like, they'll drag the pitchforks and torches on you. How dare you? This is the ultimate form of racism. Fuck freedom of speech because that's a Musk thing, not something all citizens and democratic countries take for granted.
I'm just tired of fighting with them. Just block and defederate where possible.
րպհտին ջվգեան ⊽🜁@aspensmonster@tenforward.social @celesteh@lgbt.io
>ussr built an industcialized society
but am which cost? by using people as slaves, by not having weekends, by putting workers in masses to barracks (only elite had to enjoy fancy (not really fancy) apartments. by not giving passports and freedom of movement to the part of society. by not allowing most of the people to get out of country. by killing extreme amount of people for political reasons.
i wish you lived in ussr, and felt the terror and fear. i am almost 50, i remember only eighties but i remember the constant fear in the air, i remember corruption and poverty, and stories of my parents and grandparents.
90ies were tough, yes but i felt happy during 90ies because eventually we felt free. newspapers were writing whatever they wanted, professors stopped to fear they'd be taken to secret service undergcound floor because of the wrong word.
it isupzosed that 70ies and 80ies were 'vegetarian' mostry but it didnt mean the state didnt kill. one of my celatives, a painter who did the art which was condemned, was brought to kgb, was threatened to, also threatened by what they can do to his family. then the state burned his warkshop with all the work, and then killed him by ordering a big track to make sure he'd be killed.
some were tortured at psychiatric clinics.
my neighbour was beaten to half death by police for bringing a couple of jeans pants from.outside.
the economy didnt work.
you know why we got toilet paper? well we were priveleged to get it, many remote russian cities and towns got to know what is toilet paper only in 90ies.
we got it only because it existed in the west, and it existed there because of some people thinking what to do for peopre to sell?
ussr had lots of things to do, there was only one entity which had to create the pran, the soap used in remote village school was chosen in moscow.
the only investor one could find was the state and it was not inclined to spend on innovations. all innovations, including toilet paper and computing were because it was in the west so ussr was repeating what the west capitalist nociety did.
so back to toilet paper, the engineers didnt even know what is it and how to produce it. so first machines to make toilet paper and then be replicated were bought from united kingdom. that's in 60ies bit till 90ies as i said many didn't get to know what is it.
i wish everyone who has sympathy towards ussr was traveled there by using a time macdine and expecienced first hand.
and surprisingly no socialist is willing to leave usa and go to live in china or north korea.
CharLES ☭ H (@celesteh@lgbt.io)
29.5K Posts, 1.44K Following, 1.76K Followers · Boys just want to have fun. / Composer / Coder / http://www.berkeleynoise.com Proud member of the MIDI Association This is not my "professional" account. I'm just posting weird stuff. If you know me from another social network or in real life, please say hello! If you are a student in one of my classes, please wait until you graduate or the uni makes me redundant to follow me. Kill your inner cop. Fight the fascist within. (Also, give your inner liberal a few kicks in the pants.)
Maciej Spica@aspensmonster @jonn @vwbusguy @celesteh for people from Central and Eastern Europe it was change from one totalitarian regime to another one
Mik3y
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ 
θΔ ⋐ & ∞