clifff

Shakedown folks (and only Shakedown folks please) - let's talk defederating with threads.net. Meta's recent policy changes explicitly allow homophobic, sexist and transphobic content https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/7/24338471/meta-hate-speech-hateful-conduct-policy-moderation

This makes their moderation policies directly contradictory to ours. Normally we'd handle this by blocking the server in question, and I don't see any reason why Threads would be different.

Does this move make sense to people? Any arguments for staying connected?

#stateOfShakedown

Here are some of the horrible things that you can now say on Instagram and Facebook

Meta’s policy changes around hate speech have sharply changed the content that’s banned or allowed when it’s based on gender, sexual orientation, and the coronavirus.

The Verge
Jan 10, 2025 at 4:51pmWeb
Show threadChrisJan 10, 2025
@clifff fuck em
Show threadJosh Jan 10, 2025
@clifff Agree 100% with defederating from Threads. I agree with you, we shouldn’t be treating Threads differently from any other server.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025

@Nolasox @clifff Two counterpoints:

1) We still have not yet seen the impact of the new Threads rules on our community.

2) Threads is not just any other server. It contains 400M active accounts—including many of the commercial/news/mainstream accounts that we can’t get here. It should necessitate a bespoke approach once we see how this impacts us because blocking hurts us way more than them.

Show threadJosh Jan 10, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff You make some valid points. I think part of my view is colored by the fact that in my opinion Threads has always kinda sucked.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@Nolasox @clifff Oh. It does. And I have no love for Meta. But this feels like classic cutting off our nose to spite our face. At least until we see if their moderation rules combined with their very limited federation causes problems.
Show threadCuriously LoopedJan 10, 2025
@Nolasox @chopaganda @clifff There will be bridge accounts for specific needs, we should stand by our principles and not feed that beast. I'm thankful we each have the individual tools to block en masse.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@noahitall @Nolasox @clifff But we’re not feeding it. They are feeding us.
Show threadJohn BJan 10, 2025
@clifff I don't see any reason to treat them any differently than any other server. It doesn't make any sense for you to have to deal with extra moderation so a few people can follow whatever famous people are over there. It's not our job to help Meta's bottom line. If people really want to subject themselves to what's on Threads, they can create an account there.
Show threadDave (nkL⭕ttery)Jan 10, 2025
@clifff the only decent arguments for staying connected imo can be made at an individual user level, but the good ones that post on Threads are only drops in the bucket that is Meta on the whole. Not advocating for the change you suggested but I say go for it.
Show threadBlue EmuJan 10, 2025
@clifff Absolutely defederate. I'm gonna delete my Insta for good measure.
Show threadWill DennisJan 10, 2025
@clifff Aye on defederate
Show thread📚 Jennifer Walters Dances 📚Jan 10, 2025
@clifff yep I vote defederate ✅
Show threadMike Says NoJan 10, 2025
@clifff yeah, it’s about to become a cesspool. Absolutely, if we can defederate it makes sense to do it.
Show threadfriendlybookJan 10, 2025
@clifff Go go it
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@clifff I differ from the opinions of others here. I think you harm Shakedown users who are looking for avenues to more mainstream content way more than you harm Threads. I’d rather see us take a wait-and-see approach on whether Threads toxicity penetrates our server. Then if it does, block without remorse.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@clifff Part of my reasoning is the ability to access Threads content is a big benefit of being on Mastodon. The only content I see from Threads is positive content that I want in my timeline. I don’t even know if it’s possible for troublesome Threads accounts to integrate with Masto without being “invited.” As much as I’m disgusted by Meta, we’d be spiting ourselves and harming the Masto experience. I’d rather take a pragmatic approach.
Show threadByronJan 10, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff this is pretty much my feeling. I follow the threads accounts I choose. I don't think I've ventured out of home or local to the federated stream in ages. which I assume the federated is where you'd be most likely see something toxic.
Show threadNate PHediJan 10, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff I’m inclined to agree. Wait and see. My thought: it feels more like a symbolic gesture than one of substance. And if it drives away good people to threads who might otherwise stay here, it seems to do more harm than good. But if threads becomes problematic, we can always kill the bridge later.
Show threadclifffJan 10, 2025
@NatePHedi @chopaganda I do think it's fair to say defederating would be more of a moral than practical move at this point - I've never seen a report for a specific post from Threads that violates our rules. TBH I'm not sure I've ever seen a Threads account interact with a Shakedown account, but I don't follow very many so maybe that's why.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@clifff @NatePHedi I don’t even know if they can on this side is the wall. Their federation is very limited.
Show threadJohn BJan 10, 2025

@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi I'm all for nuking Meta, but if it seems likely that their policy changes aren't going to cause problems for the admins here and immediate defederation would be a problem for some users, I'll step back from my position to cut them off based solely on their policy change.

I'm not following anyone on Threads, so don't expect problems showing up in my feed, anyway. My position to defederate now is philosophical and out of concern for extra moderation work.

Show threadBlue EmuJan 10, 2025
@clifff @NatePHedi @chopaganda Not sure I understand how defederating from Threads would be mostly symbolic but leaving Twitter wasn't.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025
@blueemu @clifff @NatePHedi Because by being on Twitter, you’re helping monetize the site. You’re also giving other people a reason to stay on there.
Show threadBlue EmuJan 10, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi So would we be OK federating with Twitter?
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025

@blueemu @clifff @NatePHedi If the federation was limited like Threads and we could have access to their content without being monetized, subjected to their environment or harassed, yes. Because it’s the best thing for the growth of Mastodon.

There is a massive gap between a) staying on as an active contributor to the evil platform and b) taking the content you want from the evil platform to view on the good platform and giving the evil platform nothing in return. It’s a bird.makeup situation.

Show threadBlue EmuJan 10, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi You're giving people who choose to stay on the evil platform an expanded reach, disincentivizing them from leaving it.
Show threadChopJan 10, 2025

@blueemu @clifff @NatePHedi Do you think the people choosing to stick on Threads or Twitter give a flying fuck about reaching the tiny amount of people on Mastodon.

Allowing a bridge (limited Threads federation, Bird.makeup, Sportsbots.XYZ) that doesn’t disrupt our community gives far more incentive to leave shitty sites because it means you don’t have to lose out on mainstream content.

Show threadBlue EmuJan 11, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi Here's my bottom line: I'm not cancelling Meta for dropping fact checking or kissing up to Trump or just being a shitty company. I'm doing it because they have targeted LGBTQ+ people with these changes, making a carve out where it's OK to call someone mentally ill for not being cis or het. That's a level of fucked up I will not personally tolerate. IMO, defederating from Threads would send a message that shakedown is a safe place for LGBTQIA folks.
Show threadBlue EmuJan 11, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi And, conversely, not defederating IMO sends the message that we view discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation differently than we view other kinds of bigotry, and therefore this is not a safe space for them.
Show threadChopJan 11, 2025

@blueemu @clifff @NatePHedi So should Shakedown block bird.makeup? Should we block any links to Substack because ::gestures broadly at the parade of assholes::?

If Nazi threads users are able to harass Shakedown users, I’m right there with you. But that hasn’t happened and the functionality isn’t even there for them to do it.

Your symbolic gesture (which is all it is) would ultimately make this place less attractive to people trying to get away from big social.

Show threadBlue EmuJan 11, 2025
@chopaganda @clifff @NatePHedi Do whatever the fuck you want. You have my opinion.
Show threadTunesListJan 10, 2025
@clifff I'm personally against defederating yet, although reserve right to change mind later ~ We need more official content providers native to Mastodon/Fediverse that unfortunately are only on Bluesky or Threads today
Show threadWaka/JoewakaJan 10, 2025

@clifff One person from Threads who I am interested in reading is Kara Swisher, because of her relationships with and criticisms of many in the big-tech community.

Despite that, I am leaning towards defederation. I had deactivated FB years ago and just deleted IG from my phone a couple of days ago. I am sick of the c**tiness of Zuckerberg, esp. with the recent news.

Show thread2dogphishJan 10, 2025
@clifff Do it. Could care less about Threads and never joined b/c the catch w/Threads is if you decide to deactivate Threads, you lose your IG account as well. And, depending on how horrible IG ends up w/this MetaMaga decision, I’m probably off of IG too. We can find legitimate sources for news, organizations etc. elsewhere (most have websites) we don’t need Threads for any of that. Whether it hurts them or not, isn’t the point to me-getting out from under the tech bro billionaire oligarchy is.
Show threadC.J.H.3 💀🪿🥚🐐Jan 10, 2025
@clifff Threads does nothing for me here. It would be no loss for me.
Show threadDan MielcarzJan 10, 2025

@clifff As much as I like following a couple people from Threads these policy changes are awful and defederating may be the right choice.

I guess I might have a different opinion if Threads was truly federated and I could follow any of the 400M people there, but given that it is opt-in and mostly one way they aren't really playing by the rules anyway. But on the other hand, the people that do choose to federate seem very unlikely to post content that violates our rules, so I don't know? 🤷🏻‍♂️